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July 10, 2009
  
AP: Mets Trade OF Church to Braves for OF Francoeur
by: Alex Nelson on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM | Filed under: Articles

From the AP:

The slumping New York Mets have traded outfielder Ryan Church to the Atlanta Braves for outfielder Jeff Francoeur.

The deal came Friday, with the injury-ravaged Mets trying to avoid falling farther back in the NL East race.

Church is hitting .280 with two home runs and 22 RBIs. Francoeur is hitting .250 with five homers and 35 RBIs.

Now, if the Mets made the trade to score some free Delta miles, great. If they made the trade to improve their right field situation, they may be in for a bit of a surprise.

Seriously, Frenchy is hitting .250/.282/.352 this season. That’s no better than he did last season when he hit .239/.294/.359. At the bat, he’s an out machine with a little bit of pop. And however bad Ryan Church has performed this season, his line is better across the board this season, and Francoeur has only once topped Church in either on-base average or slugging percentage–that being when he slugged .549 as a rookie in 2005, a mark he has since failed to come within 100 points of.

Defensively, I fail to see much of an improvement, either. His arm is spectacular, but he’s never provided much in the way of range. UZR saw him as well below average last year, and no more than average this year, pulled up by his arm rating in both seasons.

I suppose Francoeur does have more upside than Church, thanks to being five years younger and possessing more athleticism. But at this point, 2600-plus plate appearances into his career, I just don’t see him ever meeting that ceiling, or coming very close. It’s certainly possible that he does, but it just isn’t likely.

This one’s worse than a head-scratcher for me; frankly, I’m angry.


57 Responses to “AP: Mets Trade OF Church to Braves for OF Francoeur”

  1. Comment posted by John on July 10, 2009 at 6:36 pm (#1030215)

    This is awful.

    Why the heck is everyone on SNY praising this move. “It had to be done”…..”Great move by Omar”

    I dont get it.

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  3. Comment posted by DL on July 10, 2009 at 6:37 pm (#1030217)

    we’re a joke

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  5. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 6:40 pm (#1030221)

    A POX ON OMAR AND THIS TEAM

    i’m done

  6. Comment posted by Dave Magadan on July 10, 2009 at 6:43 pm (#1030223)

    With the way this orgainzation has treated Church I would be glad if i was him. Last year they mistreated him with the concussions and could have cost him to get his career really started. On the other hand maybe Hojo can work with Francoeur on his swing and get his numbers back to what they were as a rook. Hes 25 too which doesnt hurt. Hope the best for Churchy and for us.

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  8. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:44 pm (#1030224)

    So he’s worse defensively and worse offensively and the only thing that helps is he is younger.

    AWESOME.

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  10. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:45 pm (#1030225)

    Frenchy was decent for one season of his career. He’s been shitty ever since.

    Church is a better player in every facet of the game.

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  12. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on July 10, 2009 at 6:46 pm (#1030226)

    Well, Jerry got his wish and played Church right off the team!

    YOU ARE AWESOME, OMAH! (fukker!)

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  14. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm (#1030227)

    At least Frenchy won’t miss third base. Oh wait, he won’t even get the chance to be that close to third base.

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  16. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm (#1030228)

    i still cant believe this happened

    this is so bad, i dont care about posting on here during work

    i am stunned

    i want to e-murder omar and his family

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  18. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm (#1030231)

    Neither can I Dep. It’s unbelievable.

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  20. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on July 10, 2009 at 6:49 pm (#1030232)

    Frenchy’s OBP is 282!!! lol

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  22. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:49 pm (#1030233)

    Isn’t that close to what Church’s BA is?

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  24. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on July 10, 2009 at 6:50 pm (#1030234)

    Bobby Cox even benched Frenchy for 3 games this year.

    Here’s a better idea, Omah: TRADE FOR BOBBY COX!!

  25. Comment posted by Ellis Dee on July 10, 2009 at 6:51 pm (#1030235)

    OMG this is terrible.

    We get a guy that can suck for more years!

    Does this mean I can’t make fun of frenchy anymore?

    FU Omar

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  27. Comment posted by DL on July 10, 2009 at 6:51 pm (#1030236)

    remember how we talked about maybe wanting to sell church to see what we got?

    omar delivered!

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  29. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:52 pm (#1030237)

    I just love how we traded Church for another corner outfielder. I love it. I could live with this if it shored up some of our problem areas. But it doesn’t do shit.

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  31. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on July 10, 2009 at 6:52 pm (#1030238)

    they wanted a righty bat and now we got one….
    but i seriously question if this is the best Omah could do

    .250
    5 hrs
    35 rbi
    .282 avg
    .352 obp

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  33. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on July 10, 2009 at 6:54 pm (#1030239)

    and Frenchy can’t even play 1B….what happened to the OF/1B we were looking for?

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  35. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 6:55 pm (#1030240)

    We didn’t think Church+Schneider was the best we could do for Milledge.

    It’s like he traded a dollar for three quarters, now he traded one of the quarters for two pennies.

  36. Comment posted by Ellis Dee on July 10, 2009 at 6:58 pm (#1030241)

    Career OPS+:

    Church: 108
    Frenchy: 89

  37. Comment posted by Ellis Dee on July 10, 2009 at 7:02 pm (#1030242)

    At least church can play CF some with beltran out - frenchy can’t. This move makes NO sense on so many levels. ugh

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  39. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 7:03 pm (#1030243)

    i still can’t believe it

    this will take a long time to get over.

    everyone is laughing at us and the mets. thanks omar

    BTF breaks it down right

    Friday, July 10, 2009
    Mets - “Acquired” Francoeur
    New York Mets - Acquired OF Delta Airlines­® Presents Jeff Francoeur from the Atlanta Braves for OF Ryan Church.

    I like trades that are easy to dissect.

    Ryan Church is a better baseball player than Jeff Francoeur. Ryan Church is overwhelmingly likely to always be a better player than Jeff Francoeur. I am amazed that Dayton Moore only did the second-dumbest thing today.

    Ryan Church upgrades the Braves outfield. Ryan Church increases the chances that the Braves will win the NL East in any season that the team plays Ryan Church at the expense of Jeff Francoeur.

    Jeff Francoeur downgrades the Mets outfield. Jeff Francoeur increases the chance that the Mets will not win the NL East in any season that the team plays Jeff Francoeur at the expense of Ryan Church. Or possibly a galvanized metal garbage can. When was the last time your garbage can swung at a slider halfway to Peoria? Francoeur actually might be good enough to play for the Peoria Chiefs.

    If you made a trade this one-sided with your little brother as a child, you parents would instantly negate the trade and send you to your room. It’s like giving your little brother an empty can of Fanta for his Boba Fett. Now, Ryan Church isn’t as awesome as Boba Fett, but I don’t have to pay a million dollars to an empty can of Fanta either. Ryan Church is not a star, but I wouldn’t trade minor-league shortstop David Church for Francoeur either and he’s a player I just made up.

    FRANK WREN GO TO YOUR ROOM AND DONT LET ME CATCH YOU PLAYING HALO!

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  41. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 7:03 pm (#1030244)

    Yeah Jeremy Reed is the new starting CF until Beltran comes back.

    The Jeremy Reed that Jerry Manuel hates.

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  43. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 7:04 pm (#1030245)

    OH! we were the ones to get CASH

    it was reported wrong

    THANK GOD

    I’m hunting omar down this weekend

  44. Comment posted by John on July 10, 2009 at 7:04 pm (#1030246)

    lol he’s been below replacement level last two years

  45. Comment posted by The Frito Pundito on July 10, 2009 at 7:04 pm (#1030247)

    “If on-base percentage is so important, why don’t they put it up on the scoreboard?” - Jeff Francouer.

    I can tell he’s going to be *real* popular with the geeks.

    On the other hand, Atlanta fans don’t seem too happy with this one either. A lose-lose situation!

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  47. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 7:05 pm (#1030248)

    1. Frisco Cali Posted: July 10, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3249528)
    If Church suddenly retires tomorrow, is this still a good trade for the Braves?

    4. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 10, 2009 at 06:52 PM (#3249536)
    Retired tomorrow? This is a good trade for the Braves if Church died yesterday.

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  49. Comment posted by Future on July 10, 2009 at 7:07 pm (#1030251)

    That’s basically the truth. We just traded a player with positive value for a player with negative value.

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  51. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 7:07 pm (#1030252)

    LOL

  52. Comment posted by John on July 10, 2009 at 7:07 pm (#1030254)

    Well we got cash……..I feel so much better about things now.

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  54. Comment posted by Alex Nelson on July 10, 2009 at 7:08 pm (#1030255)

    “If on-base percentage is so important, why don’t they put it up on the scoreboard?” - Jeff Francouer.

    The best part: they do put it on the scoreboard, even in Atlanta.

  55. Comment posted by John on July 10, 2009 at 7:08 pm (#1030256)

    What cracks me up is the Carlins and MC of the world praising this deal lol.

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  57. Comment posted by Dep on July 10, 2009 at 7:10 pm (#1030257)

    I still cannot believe this.

    yea, the “…I like this deal” sums up metsblog nicely.

    lol @ anyone that doenst get how awful this is. I am stunned and very angry

    I’m done with omar. i cant support a man running this very expensive team that could make a move like this.

    cant wait for church to blast this team’s mgmt publicly. that will be fun

  58. Comment posted by Ellis Dee on July 10, 2009 at 7:12 pm (#1030260)

    What cracks me up is the Carlins and MC of the world praising this deal lol.

    Doesn’t surprise me, Carlin initiated a protest at Jets camp to bring Favre to the team because it was a “no-brainer”. lol

  59. Comment posted by John on July 10, 2009 at 7:12 pm (#1030261)

    U just know next week in atlanta church is going 8-12 with a couple HR’s lol

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  61. Comment posted by TLC on July 10, 2009 at 7:13 pm (#1030264)

    My phone is ringing off the hook. People are making fun of me. let it stop

  62. Comment posted by Ellis Dee on July 10, 2009 at 7:15 pm (#1030272)

    It’s amazing how a rookie GM absolutely pwnd omar.

  63. Comment posted by skyhappysal on July 10, 2009 at 7:19 pm (#1030277)

    Yeah, I’m angry. But then i trie dto remember how I felt about the Kazmir deal. And I don’t feel as angry anymore.
    I really apreciated Churche’s defense., but overall he wasn’t cutting it either.
    We were a shittie team before the deal, and we’re still shittie.
    If Beltran comes back maybe Pagan will be the rightfielder.

  64. Comment posted by levinhatz on July 10, 2009 at 8:04 pm (#1030368)

    Why is everyone dissing this trade??

    Ryan Church gives us almost nothing. Sure, this year the offensive numbers for Church are “better”, but Francoeur is a MUCH better defensive player… Church has a good arm but Frenchy’s is way better, and Francoeur covers more ground. What’s more Franc runs the bases better (hits every base every time) and runs faster.

    What’s more, the guy has upside. Church has none. He’s younger. He’s hit in the past. He’s improving his game. Ryan Church just seems to be falling off the map after a young career chock full of injuries.

    This could be another one of those trades for Omar that winds up looking better than initially thought. Remember the trade of Lastings Milledge that got us both Church and Brian Schneider?

  65. Comment posted by skyhappysal on July 10, 2009 at 8:18 pm (#1030398)

    ?
    Church has an underated arm, but I admit thant Francoeur’s is stronger.
    There is no chance that Francoeur covers more ground though.
    Church is the superior fielder, Francoeur is the superior thrower.

    We’re not REALLY upset so much by losing Church, We’re upset because we wanted help, and we didn’ really get any.

  66. Comment posted by levinhatz on July 10, 2009 at 8:42 pm (#1030445)

    Jeff Francoeur has a gold glove (2007). How many gold gloves does Ryan Church have? Frenchie has had two consecutive 100-rbi seasons, and two consecutive 162 game seasons. How many of those does Church have?

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  68. Comment posted by Peter H on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 pm (#1030583)

    Levin,

    I don’t really have a problem with trading Church - he really doesn’t hit enough for a corner outfielder. The problem is that, at this point, Jeff Francoeur is an awful hitter. Even when he had his 100-RBI seasons he wasn’t getting on base enough to contribute offensively. Now, pitchers have learned to just make him chase after pitches out of the strike zone. He’s had an OBP under .300 the last 2 years, with little power. You can talk about potential & upside, but the fact is, Jeff has absolutely zero plate discipline, and that’s not a skill that easily develops out of nowhere.

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  70. Comment posted by Peter H on July 10, 2009 at 9:36 pm (#1030617)

    We’re not REALLY upset so much by losing Church, We’re upset because we wanted help, and we didn’ really get any.

    Actually, I would prefer that Omar not get help, unless the price is very low. I just don’t think it’s worth it to overpay in prospects for an Aubrey Huff or Nick Johnson. We already have so many holes, one more bat is not going to put us back in contention.

  71. Comment posted by Ed in Westchester on July 10, 2009 at 9:39 pm (#1030624)

    Frenchy?

    For realz?

    :sends omar box of condoms:

  72. Comment posted by Hubie on July 10, 2009 at 10:14 pm (#1030703)

    Even when Francouer was driving in 100 runs for Atlanta, I still thought he sucked (and not just cuz he was a Brave). He has zero idea of the strike zone, has average speed at best and does not cover a ton of ground in rf. For Atlanta its at least addition by subtraction. For the metsies, just a big fat negative. Good Lord he sucks so much.

  73. Comment posted by Hubie on July 10, 2009 at 10:17 pm (#1030708)

    This reminds me when we traded for Hidalgo in 2004 I believe. You looked at his one career year in Houston and had a glimmer of hope, but once you saw him hit, you realized he was a slob on a steep downhill slide in his career.

  74. Comment posted by Super T on July 10, 2009 at 10:37 pm (#1030754)

    How many years do both players have left on their contracts?

  75. Comment posted by littlefallsmets on July 10, 2009 at 10:56 pm (#1030803)

    I mean, they’re both flawed players but at least Francouer has more raw potential… or had, anyway. Church’s ceiling is and always was “eh”.

    I dunno. Not a huge improvement but, yeah, I was certainly sick of Church’s streaky mehness. Even if Frank gives us more of the same, at least its a different guy.

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  77. Comment posted by Ogre on July 10, 2009 at 11:22 pm (#1030851)

    This is a GREAT trade for the Mets!

    *If Ogre keeps saying it, it may eventually become true. Please God. Please make it eventually come true.

    Ogre just heard from God. He said this will never be a good trade. How unfortunate.

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  79. Comment posted by Chaucer on July 10, 2009 at 11:28 pm (#1030855)

    I’m sitting here gap-mouthed. As far as I can see, this is one dumb-ass trade, except for the money. Think Ho-Jo can fix this guy’s hitting?

  80. Comment posted by Darbz on July 11, 2009 at 11:44 am (#1030923)

    This trade looks like Kazmir for Victor Zambrano to me.

    Maybe we can trade Francoeur (and if I’ve spelt that worng, like I care) for Elijah Dukes and get some attitude on the field, not this “we’re so hard done by injuries, I can suck and it doesn’t matter” attitude that’s going on at the moment. Yeah, sure we’ve got major injuries, but surely these back up players weren’t planning on piggybacking to success all year. Isn’t this when a young player from the Minors steps up and takes over the spotlight…… oh wait, we don’t have a farm system, all our prospects went to the Twins, and all our draft picks went for type A’s.

  81. Comment posted by WT Economist on July 11, 2009 at 2:31 pm (#1030946)

    This is about placating the restless natives for a few weeks. The alternative was trading F-Mart, Niese, Murphy and Evans for Adam Dunn. I don’t think it can be explained otherwise.

    What it appears to signal is that the plan is F-mart and a free agent in the corners next year, or perhaps Beltran in one corner and F-mart in center. The only way there is a chance this year is if everyone comes back and goes on a tear. There is no good trade to be made.

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  83. Comment posted by DL on July 11, 2009 at 2:40 pm (#1030947)

    oh wait, we don’t have a farm system, all our prospects went to the Twins, and all our draft picks went for type A’s

    ugh

  84. Comment posted by coolpapabell on July 13, 2009 at 3:14 pm (#1031608)

    I would have rather them trade for Alex Rios’ bad contract than brin in Francoeur and have him clogg up a roster spot for the next three years. I would have taken a solid middle releiver over Francoeur. Lets hope Omar doesn’t make any more of these trades.

  85. Comment posted by argonbunnies on July 13, 2009 at 7:21 pm (#1031637)

    Here are the positives:

    1. Trades generate excitement. The players seem happy that the front office made a move. They seem optimistic that they might be a better team now.

    2. Francoeur’s an upbeat guy. One more of those in our clubhouse might be a good thing. Having fun is better than counting your D.L. tally.

    The negatives, of course, are that Ryan Church is a better baseball player.

    The only controversy regarding skill seems to be about running speed. Frenchy is taller with longer strides, and I remember him covering a ton of ground as a rookie. Having watched both guys over the last two years, though, it seems to me that Church is much faster, and that Francoeur is in fact much slower than you’d like an OF in a big ballpark to be.

    We’ll just have to hope that the game or two Frenchy’s bat costs us are countered by David Wright putting less pressure on himself (with one more funny guy in the dugout to joke around with) and producing a one or two game upsurge in production.

  86. Comment posted by argonbunnies on July 13, 2009 at 7:25 pm (#1031638)

    I am much happier to have Frenchy than Rios. We can release Jeff, like the Braves were probably about to do, and owe him nothing. There’s no way out of paying Rios $12 mil/yr to be average.

    Frenchy’s the best we could get without ditching all our prospects. (If Omar decides to ditch our prospects, I want nothing less than Halladay.)

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  88. Comment posted by Wally Dykstra on July 14, 2009 at 1:22 am (#1031654)

    I think this trade might work out ok if they let Francouer wear a Braves uniform while playing in Citi Field.

    Seriously, this is stupid trade, but I don’t really see it as mattering all that much, and if it means I see less of Tatis, maybe that’s a good thing. Pretty much a deal for a deal’s sake to make it look like Omar’s trying. Yawn.

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