I can’t remember the last time I brought him as far as the trade is concerned.
Um….you don’t have to directly reference the trade. Its always in the background, its the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 1:36 am (#664091)
Sometimes there are good points to be made vis-a-vis Milledge and his coverage.
For example, imagine the stink that would have been raised here by his detractors if Milledge wore the same outfit that Jimmy Rollins wore today for his interview with Gammons.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 1:41 am (#664093)
I mentioned that Jesus piece that Rollins had on Danny. That shit had to be at least 50K worth of ice. His earrings were worth another 10K too.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 1:42 am (#664094)
Rollins was wearing an ENOURMOUS cross around his neck. Doc even made a joke about it.
Now, I don’t care and it’s not a big deal. But it would have been more fodder for his critics. And a Wallace Matthews hate piece would have followed with quotes from some anonymous team officials or something silly.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 1:42 am (#664095)
A grey pinstripe leisure suit. With aforementioned frostbit cross and earings. He looked like a straight up P.I.M.P.
Ha, Rollins now gets away with most anything that other black athletes don’t cause he is a ‘leader’. But there are still many who think he is a n-word for dressing like that. Tho I am sure Matthews would have skewered him if he were in NYC. Matthews is an equal opportunity prick.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 1:46 am (#664097)
Ha, Rollins now gets away with most anything that other black athletes don’t cause he is a ‘leader’. But there are still many who think he is a n-word for dressing like that. Tho I am sure Matthews would have skewered him if he were in NYC. Matthews is an equal opportunity prick.
True indeed. I still can’t remember the piece he wrote about Lasto watch and his pink shirt.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 1:50 am (#664099)
There are people that buy into some of his stuff. That’s the sad part. I even see some of his ridiculousness seep into the opinions of reasonable people on here.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 1:53 am (#664100)
Danny, America has a long way to go when it comes to dealing with race. Think about this, Milledge had trouble in the second most liberal city in the United States. It’s a crime and shame.
In what way. Nobody believes that garbage about Milledge being a problem child. Immature and cocky, yes–but that is most 23 year olds. He should have handled himself smarter in the clubhouse though. That’s where he made his msittakes. Once your teammates lose their respect and don’t have your back, you are fucked.
Think about this, Milledge had trouble in the second most liberal city in the United States. It’s a crime and shame.
Puh-lease liberals are some of the most racist motherfuckers out there. And if anyone need proof, I can tell you that NYC is a super-racist city–people there just sugar-coat and hide it better than most other cities by enforcing certain boundaries and a generally apathetic polis culture.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 1:58 am (#664103)
Milledge made some mistakes. No one can deny that. But it blows my mind, some of the things that reasonable posters will say on here about him. It’s why Doc and I and some others feel so strongly about him and want to defend him.
I don’t dismiss his part in the perception of him. He played some role. But a much greater role was played by others.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:01 am (#664104)
Puh-lease liberals are some of the most racist mother####ers out there. And if anyone need proof, I can tell you that NYC is a super-racist city–people there just sugar-coat and hide it better than most other cities by enforcing certain boundaries and a generally apathetic polis culture.
This is true. And NYC really isn’t all that liberal in a lot of ways anyway. But it is a more tolarent place than most places and he still took grief for racial things, that’s pretty depressing.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 2:04 am (#664105)
I’ll put it this way, Milledge hasn’t done one thing that ever made me say, “Wow, bad dude.”
I don’t dismiss his part in the perception of him. He played some role. But a much greater role was played by others.
True. But what I resent most is the fact that people shit on Omar for the trade–there was very little he could do. His manager and players wanted Milledge gone. The NYC media and the rest of the league brought constant heat on the Mets. There was almost no way Omar was going to be able to keep him over the past offseason without really making things worse. He ended up doing what was best for everyone involved, including Lastings by giving a fresh start. In truth, I really don’t see any losers outside of the fact that fairness and decency lost out. But that isn’t Omar’s job. He shouldn’t have to be made to aspire to a standard of a crusader for racial justice, he has a business to run and I understand his position.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:05 am (#664107)
Milledge made some mistakes. No one can deny that. But it blows my mind, some of the things that reasonable posters will say on here about him. It’s why Doc and I and some others feel so strongly about him and want to defend him.
I don’t dismiss his part in the perception of him. He played some role. But a much greater role was played by others.
Yep, my biggest thing with him he’s guilty of the sins of most 22 year old. He thought he ran the world, and needs to grow up. These shouldn’t be a fatal sins. White players go though stuff and the press says, he just a kid or what ever. Instead they crucified this kid.
But it is a more tolarent place than most places and he still took grief for racial things, that’s pretty depressing.
What people call liberalism in NYC is a euphimism for apathy and alienation. Masses of people all alone, separated from one another in their little isolated bubbles where they do not venture outside certain boundaries or engage with particular people they see everyday on the subway street. If this is liberalism, then it is an ideal gone awry to say the least.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:11 am (#664109)
True. But what I resent most is the fact that people #### on Omar for the trade–there was very little he could do. His manager and players wanted Milledge gone. The NYC media and the rest of the league brought constant heat on the Mets. There was almost no way Omar was going to be able to keep him over the past offseason without really making things worse. He ended up doing what was best for everyone involved, including Lastings by giving a fresh start. In truth, I really don’t see any losers outside of the fact that fairness and decency lost out. But that isn’t Omar’s job. He shouldn’t have to be made to aspire to a standard of a crusader for racial justice, he has a business to run and I understand his position.
This is probably all true, with that said I think someone at some point has to stand up for fairness and decency. As Edmund Burke said “All that is required for evil to prevail is good men to do nothing.” They’ll be likely a young black baseball player in town again, how will the Mets handle these kinds of issues. Shit how will they handle the similar kind of crap that’s coming up around Jose Reyes. I think at somepoint some on has to say No Mas and take the press to task on this stuff.
White players go though stuff and the press says, he just a kid or what ever.
Not always, but it does happen depending on a combination of issues. The greatest hypocrisy that comes immediately to mind is Josh fucking Hamilton that crackedheaded motherfucker. While in Bradenton, he became addicted to drugs, which he took at the local tattoo parlor where he got 26 tattoos. Imagine Milledge doing this or any Latino player for that matter? In 2003, he disappeared from spring training for six weeks after being reassigned to minor-league camp; when he returned, the Devil Rays then-manager, Lou Piniella, sent Hamilton home from spring training, telling him to get his life straightHe remained away from the team for most of the remainder of the season due to “undisclosed off-field problems”. He then checked himself into a drug rehabilitation facility, but did not complete the program. His drug problems became more public knowledge when Major League Baseball suspended him for 30 days, later extended indefinitely, on February 18, 2004, for failing yet another drug test. Now the media kisses his ass for making “mistakes”.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:16 am (#664111)
What people call liberalism in NYC is a euphimism for apathy and alienation. Masses of people all alone, separated from one another in their little isolated bubbles where they do not venture outside certain boundaries or engage with particular people they see everyday on the subway street. If this is liberalism, then it is an ideal gone awry to say the least.
I think you make good points here. New York is an increasingly stratified place, although I think in most large cities people are hesitant to let people in so to speak. And I completely get the point that this is a cliquish town so speak because I live it everyday, moving between the different cliques when I go to work, school, and family. Still I would say it is a little less so than say Birmingham, Alabama or a town like that or even Philly where lived for four years.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:18 am (#664112)
Not always, but it does happen depending on a combination of issues. The greatest hypocrisy that comes immediately to mind is Josh ####ing Hamilton that crackedheaded mother####er. While in Bradenton, he became addicted to drugs, which he took at the local tattoo parlor where he got 26 tattoos. Imagine Milledge doing this or any Latino player for that matter? In 2003, he disappeared from spring training for six weeks after being reassigned to minor-league camp; when he returned, the Devil Rays then-manager, Lou Piniella, sent Hamilton home from spring training, telling him to get his life straightHe remained away from the team for most of the remainder of the season due to “undisclosed off-field problems”. He then checked himself into a drug rehabilitation facility, but did not complete the program. His drug problems became more public knowledge when Major League Baseball suspended him for 30 days, later extended indefinitely, on February 18, 2004, for failing yet another drug test. Now the media kisses his ass for making “mistakes”.
I was going to mention Hamilton, perfect example. As a human being I’m happy for the guy, but I have big problems with the double standard you’re referring to here.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 2:19 am (#664113)
Re: Milledge and his teammates
How much did it impact his relationship with them, the fact that he was a prospect under such a bright microscope for so many years? Did they give him a fair chance? Are they not human and susceptible to passing judgement on him based on the baggage he carried with him?
It’s hard to say of course. But Milledge certainly wasn’t universally hated by his teammates, so I wonder.
This is probably all true, with that said I think someone at some point has to stand up for fairness and decency. As Edmund Burke said “All that is required for evil to prevail is good men to do nothing.” They’ll be likely a young black baseball player in town again, how will the Mets handle these kinds of issues. #### how will they handle the similar kind of crap that’s coming up around Jose Reyes. I think at somepoint some on has to say No Mas and take the press to task on this stuff.
You cannot fight the media on this type of thing, at the level we are talking about. To think that Omar could is unfair as such a battle isn’t his to fight. Its a larger one than baseball itself as it is about the state of this country and what it means to live in our present-day society. To change the way people think one has to change the world.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:26 am (#664115)
Re: Milledge and his teammates
How much did it impact his relationship with them, the fact that he was a prospect under such a bright microscope for so many years? Did they give him a fair chance? Are they not human and susceptible to passing judgement on him based on the baggage he carried with him?
It’s hard to say of course. But Milledge certainly wasn’t universally hated by his teammates, so I wonder.
Good question, one we’ll like never know the answer to unless he becomes a superstar and writes a book or something. My guess is it split generationally and maybe even along racial lines a bit. Just like our perceptions of him seem to do. I think the dynamic with Willie is the part I want to understand. Milledge said that Willie rarely talked to him, and Jerry Manuel was made the official conduit. I want to know how that’s possible and why Willie choose to handle it like that.
Still I would say it is a little less so than say Birmingham, Alabama or a town like that or even Philly where lived for four years.
But you see its interesting because here is where the issue of apathy comes into play. Birmingham may have the legacy of Jim Crow Southern racism hanging around its neck and there are certainly very visible signs of racism there that one doesn’t see in the Northeastern and Western Pacific states, but Birmingham is a place where people interact and don’t like in a mob mentality of indifference and apathy to the state of the human being next to them. They stop and say hello and talk to people there, there is still more of an emphasis upon human contact in Birmingham. If Manhattan, the posh-liberal capital of the Northeastern US were to function this way, you would see that its not all that different from Birmingham. What people call liberalism is a disguised indifference. If people actually had to function as community outside of the atomized clique, gated spaces, and depersonalized relations of exchange which typify the common day on the street there, you’d see some serious shit. This I know.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:31 am (#664117)
You cannot fight the media on this type of thing, at the level we are talking about. To think that Omar could is unfair as such a battle isn’t his to fight. Its a larger one than baseball itself as it is about the state of this country and what it means to live in our present-day society. To change the way people think one has to change the world.
I know Omar can’t change the world, and your right its not his battle, but the world doesn’t get changed if people just accept this kind of thing. I think one of the worse things that happened in sports is that we have no Clemente, Barkley, et al. who will risk anything to make the world around them better by saying anything controversial about these sorts of issues. Athletes have become as Bill Rhoden put it forty million dollar slaves. Could you imagine a Juan Carlos/Tommie Smith moment in sports today.
How much did it impact his relationship with them, the fact that he was a prospect under such a bright microscope for so many years? Did they give him a fair chance? Are they not human and susceptible to passing judgement on him based on the baggage he carried with him?
It’s hard to say of course. But Milledge certainly wasn’t universally hated by his teammates, so I wonder.
This is a very tricky question. My own belief is that athletes understand the hype which accompanies living under media scrutiny and would not have been too swayed one way or the other about Milledge until they directly interacted with him. They should know better at least. I can see how a guy like Milledge would drive an older player crazy and how he would get along with younger teammates who don’t get offended by youthful arrogance and his brash style of conduct. But since Milledge had to impress the veterans and coaches there (which is the whole thing with Willie when he says he wants his players to show him something), it was the older guys he had to appease and I think its safe to say he made a huge mistake by not being as accomodating to their customs.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:39 am (#664119)
But you see its interesting because here is where the issue of apathy comes into play. Birmingham may have the legacy of Jim Crow Southern racism hanging around its neck and there are certainly very visible signs of racism there that one doesn’t see in the Northeastern and Western Pacific states, but Birmingham is a place where people interact and don’t like in a mob mentality of indifference and apathy to the state of the human being next to them. They stop and say hello and talk to people there, there is still more of an emphasis upon human contact in Birmingham. If Manhattan, the posh-liberal capital of the Northeastern US were to function this way, you would see that its not all that different from Birmingham. What people call liberalism is a disguised indifference. If people actually had to function as community outside of the atomized clique, gated spaces, and depersonalized relations of exchange which typify the common day on the street there, you’d see some serious ####. This I know.
Maybe your right. I do notice things that bother me living here now, and I’m from here. My office has moved now, but at my old office we had a security manager who was nice, but a sticker for the rules. Have your id, etc. And people in my office talked a lot of shit about it when he made them follow the building rules, about he wasted their times. A lot of the comments they make about the transit workers here drive me nuts too, esp. around the strike a couple years back. Comments about public school graduates in the city, matter fact I had to make it known one day that I am in fact a NYC public school grad. You make good points. I’ll need to ponder.
Comment posted byDannyon April 21, 2008 at 2:40 am (#664120)
Good discussion tonight gentlemen. I need to grab some shut eye. Night!
I know Omar can’t change the world, and your right its not his battle, but the world doesn’t get changed if people just accept this kind of thing. I think one of the worse things that happened in sports is that we have no Clemente, Barkley, et al. who will risk anything to make the world around them better by saying anything controversial about these sorts of issues. Athletes have become as Bill Rhoden put it forty million dollar slaves. Could you imagine a Juan Carlos/Tommie Smith moment in sports today.
No, I couldn’t and to be honest part of the problem is that Lastings Milledge (and his present generation) isn’t a Juan Carlos/Tommie Smith/Roberto Clemente/Jackie Robinson/Muhammed Ali type figure either. He is not a crusader for anything, he stands for nothing but playing baseball, making music and getting paid when he can. That’s fine, but one can’t expect to use sports as a vehicle to address social injustice when players like Milledge are paid off slaves of a system that forces them into pre-packaged cookie cutter type personalities. Jackie Robinson stood for something, Muhammed Ali stood for something, etc, etc. They were willing to risk dollars and their images and their lives for causes that went beyond their own personal gain. But even then, their struggle for justice off the feild/ring/track/court was tied to a larger movement. For Jackie it was the Civil Rights movement. For Ali it was the Antiwar movement and a powerful critique of American imperialism and domestic/international racism. For Juan Carlos and Tommie Smith it was about Black Power. What does Lastings Milledge stand for when he lauds a form of hip-hop that replicates the very stereotypes of black males that so many fought to rebutt? This is why I don’t have great sympathy for him…I just don’t.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 2:49 am (#664122)
But he’s 23 Ramon. This how 22 year old kids tend to think. Will he be a social crusader of some sort, probably not. Most people weren’t back then, where are the people who are. Has the money just made guys unwilling to deal with this sort. But on some level you’re right we’ve just become a society that doesn’t care about much else except getting paid.
But he’s 23 Ramon. This how 22 year old kids tend to think. Will he be a social crusader of some sort, probably not. Most people weren’t back then, where are the people who are. Has the money just made guys unwilling to deal with this sort. But on some level you’re right we’ve just become a society that doesn’t care about much else except getting paid.
And there is nothing wrong with being 22-23 years old and wanting money in your pocket doing something you love. But then why should Milledge be seen as this lightning rod issue for racism in sports and society in general? I see him as very uncomprising even for his age because there are many kids who recognize that you have eat shit and grin in order to accomodate a system were the rules are fixed. He isn’t standing up to racism by being “hip-hop”. He was just stupidly bringing heat on himself.
It was the same thing with Delgado when he bent on that whole standing to the flag issue. He could have made a fuss and stood by his principle, he accomodate instead to get paid. Fine, but he is no crusader to me.
Comment posted byDoctorK16on April 21, 2008 at 3:05 am (#664126)
Good point. Carlos decided he want to be a met more than he wanted to protest. I guess the money is salve to most crusading. Good night.
Um….you don’t have to directly reference the trade. Its always in the background, its the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.
Sometimes there are good points to be made vis-a-vis Milledge and his coverage.
For example, imagine the stink that would have been raised here by his detractors if Milledge wore the same outfit that Jimmy Rollins wore today for his interview with Gammons.
What did Rollins wear?
I mentioned that Jesus piece that Rollins had on Danny. That shit had to be at least 50K worth of ice. His earrings were worth another 10K too.
Rollins was wearing an ENOURMOUS cross around his neck. Doc even made a joke about it.
Now, I don’t care and it’s not a big deal. But it would have been more fodder for his critics. And a Wallace Matthews hate piece would have followed with quotes from some anonymous team officials or something silly.
A grey pinstripe leisure suit. With aforementioned frostbit cross and earings. He looked like a straight up P.I.M.P.
Ha, Rollins now gets away with most anything that other black athletes don’t cause he is a ‘leader’. But there are still many who think he is a n-word for dressing like that. Tho I am sure Matthews would have skewered him if he were in NYC. Matthews is an equal opportunity prick.
True indeed. I still can’t remember the piece he wrote about Lasto watch and his pink shirt.
Matthews is such a tool. He’s a 5 tool reporter.
There are people that buy into some of his stuff. That’s the sad part. I even see some of his ridiculousness seep into the opinions of reasonable people on here.
Danny, America has a long way to go when it comes to dealing with race. Think about this, Milledge had trouble in the second most liberal city in the United States. It’s a crime and shame.
In what way. Nobody believes that garbage about Milledge being a problem child. Immature and cocky, yes–but that is most 23 year olds. He should have handled himself smarter in the clubhouse though. That’s where he made his msittakes. Once your teammates lose their respect and don’t have your back, you are fucked.
Puh-lease liberals are some of the most racist motherfuckers out there. And if anyone need proof, I can tell you that NYC is a super-racist city–people there just sugar-coat and hide it better than most other cities by enforcing certain boundaries and a generally apathetic polis culture.
Milledge made some mistakes. No one can deny that. But it blows my mind, some of the things that reasonable posters will say on here about him. It’s why Doc and I and some others feel so strongly about him and want to defend him.
I don’t dismiss his part in the perception of him. He played some role. But a much greater role was played by others.
This is true. And NYC really isn’t all that liberal in a lot of ways anyway. But it is a more tolarent place than most places and he still took grief for racial things, that’s pretty depressing.
I’ll put it this way, Milledge hasn’t done one thing that ever made me say, “Wow, bad dude.”
Cocky? Yes.
Immature? Yes.
Bad dude and a cancer? Never.
True. But what I resent most is the fact that people shit on Omar for the trade–there was very little he could do. His manager and players wanted Milledge gone. The NYC media and the rest of the league brought constant heat on the Mets. There was almost no way Omar was going to be able to keep him over the past offseason without really making things worse. He ended up doing what was best for everyone involved, including Lastings by giving a fresh start. In truth, I really don’t see any losers outside of the fact that fairness and decency lost out. But that isn’t Omar’s job. He shouldn’t have to be made to aspire to a standard of a crusader for racial justice, he has a business to run and I understand his position.
Yep, my biggest thing with him he’s guilty of the sins of most 22 year old. He thought he ran the world, and needs to grow up. These shouldn’t be a fatal sins. White players go though stuff and the press says, he just a kid or what ever. Instead they crucified this kid.
What people call liberalism in NYC is a euphimism for apathy and alienation. Masses of people all alone, separated from one another in their little isolated bubbles where they do not venture outside certain boundaries or engage with particular people they see everyday on the subway street. If this is liberalism, then it is an ideal gone awry to say the least.
This is probably all true, with that said I think someone at some point has to stand up for fairness and decency. As Edmund Burke said “All that is required for evil to prevail is good men to do nothing.” They’ll be likely a young black baseball player in town again, how will the Mets handle these kinds of issues. Shit how will they handle the similar kind of crap that’s coming up around Jose Reyes. I think at somepoint some on has to say No Mas and take the press to task on this stuff.
Not always, but it does happen depending on a combination of issues. The greatest hypocrisy that comes immediately to mind is Josh fucking Hamilton that crackedheaded motherfucker. While in Bradenton, he became addicted to drugs, which he took at the local tattoo parlor where he got 26 tattoos. Imagine Milledge doing this or any Latino player for that matter? In 2003, he disappeared from spring training for six weeks after being reassigned to minor-league camp; when he returned, the Devil Rays then-manager, Lou Piniella, sent Hamilton home from spring training, telling him to get his life straightHe remained away from the team for most of the remainder of the season due to “undisclosed off-field problems”. He then checked himself into a drug rehabilitation facility, but did not complete the program. His drug problems became more public knowledge when Major League Baseball suspended him for 30 days, later extended indefinitely, on February 18, 2004, for failing yet another drug test. Now the media kisses his ass for making “mistakes”.
I think you make good points here. New York is an increasingly stratified place, although I think in most large cities people are hesitant to let people in so to speak. And I completely get the point that this is a cliquish town so speak because I live it everyday, moving between the different cliques when I go to work, school, and family. Still I would say it is a little less so than say Birmingham, Alabama or a town like that or even Philly where lived for four years.
I was going to mention Hamilton, perfect example. As a human being I’m happy for the guy, but I have big problems with the double standard you’re referring to here.
Re: Milledge and his teammates
How much did it impact his relationship with them, the fact that he was a prospect under such a bright microscope for so many years? Did they give him a fair chance? Are they not human and susceptible to passing judgement on him based on the baggage he carried with him?
It’s hard to say of course. But Milledge certainly wasn’t universally hated by his teammates, so I wonder.
You cannot fight the media on this type of thing, at the level we are talking about. To think that Omar could is unfair as such a battle isn’t his to fight. Its a larger one than baseball itself as it is about the state of this country and what it means to live in our present-day society. To change the way people think one has to change the world.
Re: Milledge and his teammates
Good question, one we’ll like never know the answer to unless he becomes a superstar and writes a book or something. My guess is it split generationally and maybe even along racial lines a bit. Just like our perceptions of him seem to do. I think the dynamic with Willie is the part I want to understand. Milledge said that Willie rarely talked to him, and Jerry Manuel was made the official conduit. I want to know how that’s possible and why Willie choose to handle it like that.
But you see its interesting because here is where the issue of apathy comes into play. Birmingham may have the legacy of Jim Crow Southern racism hanging around its neck and there are certainly very visible signs of racism there that one doesn’t see in the Northeastern and Western Pacific states, but Birmingham is a place where people interact and don’t like in a mob mentality of indifference and apathy to the state of the human being next to them. They stop and say hello and talk to people there, there is still more of an emphasis upon human contact in Birmingham. If Manhattan, the posh-liberal capital of the Northeastern US were to function this way, you would see that its not all that different from Birmingham. What people call liberalism is a disguised indifference. If people actually had to function as community outside of the atomized clique, gated spaces, and depersonalized relations of exchange which typify the common day on the street there, you’d see some serious shit. This I know.
I know Omar can’t change the world, and your right its not his battle, but the world doesn’t get changed if people just accept this kind of thing. I think one of the worse things that happened in sports is that we have no Clemente, Barkley, et al. who will risk anything to make the world around them better by saying anything controversial about these sorts of issues. Athletes have become as Bill Rhoden put it forty million dollar slaves. Could you imagine a Juan Carlos/Tommie Smith moment in sports today.
This is a very tricky question. My own belief is that athletes understand the hype which accompanies living under media scrutiny and would not have been too swayed one way or the other about Milledge until they directly interacted with him. They should know better at least. I can see how a guy like Milledge would drive an older player crazy and how he would get along with younger teammates who don’t get offended by youthful arrogance and his brash style of conduct. But since Milledge had to impress the veterans and coaches there (which is the whole thing with Willie when he says he wants his players to show him something), it was the older guys he had to appease and I think its safe to say he made a huge mistake by not being as accomodating to their customs.
Maybe your right. I do notice things that bother me living here now, and I’m from here. My office has moved now, but at my old office we had a security manager who was nice, but a sticker for the rules. Have your id, etc. And people in my office talked a lot of shit about it when he made them follow the building rules, about he wasted their times. A lot of the comments they make about the transit workers here drive me nuts too, esp. around the strike a couple years back. Comments about public school graduates in the city, matter fact I had to make it known one day that I am in fact a NYC public school grad. You make good points. I’ll need to ponder.
Good discussion tonight gentlemen. I need to grab some shut eye. Night!
No, I couldn’t and to be honest part of the problem is that Lastings Milledge (and his present generation) isn’t a Juan Carlos/Tommie Smith/Roberto Clemente/Jackie Robinson/Muhammed Ali type figure either. He is not a crusader for anything, he stands for nothing but playing baseball, making music and getting paid when he can. That’s fine, but one can’t expect to use sports as a vehicle to address social injustice when players like Milledge are paid off slaves of a system that forces them into pre-packaged cookie cutter type personalities. Jackie Robinson stood for something, Muhammed Ali stood for something, etc, etc. They were willing to risk dollars and their images and their lives for causes that went beyond their own personal gain. But even then, their struggle for justice off the feild/ring/track/court was tied to a larger movement. For Jackie it was the Civil Rights movement. For Ali it was the Antiwar movement and a powerful critique of American imperialism and domestic/international racism. For Juan Carlos and Tommie Smith it was about Black Power. What does Lastings Milledge stand for when he lauds a form of hip-hop that replicates the very stereotypes of black males that so many fought to rebutt? This is why I don’t have great sympathy for him…I just don’t.
But he’s 23 Ramon. This how 22 year old kids tend to think. Will he be a social crusader of some sort, probably not. Most people weren’t back then, where are the people who are. Has the money just made guys unwilling to deal with this sort. But on some level you’re right we’ve just become a society that doesn’t care about much else except getting paid.
And there is nothing wrong with being 22-23 years old and wanting money in your pocket doing something you love. But then why should Milledge be seen as this lightning rod issue for racism in sports and society in general? I see him as very uncomprising even for his age because there are many kids who recognize that you have eat shit and grin in order to accomodate a system were the rules are fixed. He isn’t standing up to racism by being “hip-hop”. He was just stupidly bringing heat on himself.
It was the same thing with Delgado when he bent on that whole standing to the flag issue. He could have made a fuss and stood by his principle, he accomodate instead to get paid. Fine, but he is no crusader to me.
Good point. Carlos decided he want to be a met more than he wanted to protest. I guess the money is salve to most crusading. Good night.
Good night…or morning…