my account:
premium blogad:
blogads:
advertisement:
sitemeter:
ticket center:
-
Buy Baseball Tickets from CTC. We carry
New York Mets Tickets,
New York Yankees Tickets,
Boston Red Sox Tickets,
Chicago Cubs Tickets,
Detroit Tigers Tickets and more.
BarrysTickets.com has great deals on
NFL Football Tickets,
NBA Basketball Tickets,
NCAA Basketball Tickets,
MLB Baseball Tickets,
Super Bowl Tickets and
Los Angeles Galaxy Soccer Tickets. Seatwave.com Buy or sell:
Six Nations rugby tickets
Kylie Tickets
Cricket tickets
Celine Dion tickets
Formula 1 tickets
Iron Maiden tickets
Razorgator has
Mets tickets,
Oakland Athletics tickets, and
Dodgers tickets
along with other
Baseball tickets including
World Series tickets. Buy all kinds of affordable MLB tickets here. Find New York Mets tickets, Red Sox Yankees tickets, Chicago Cub tickets, White Sox tickets and World Series tickets and more. GET ME IN! Buy and sell Grand National Tickets
England Cricket Tickets
Ireland Rugby Tickets
Wales Rugby Tickets
England Rugby Tickets
Chester Racecourse
Heineken Cup Final Tickets
Joe Calzaghe Tickets
Theatre Tickets
and much more! Get premium New York Mets Tickets and New York Giants Tickets from TickCo.com. More MLB Tickets. Ticket Broker
New York Mets Tickets
New York Yankees Tickets
New York Giants Tickets
Concert Tickets
Wicked Tickets Find and buy
Arsenal Tickets
Manchester United Tickets
Liverpool Tickets
Fulham Tickets
England vs Russia Tickets
Wembley Stadium Tickets
Champions League Tickets
Euro 2008 Final Tickets
and more
England football tickets Neco has the best seats in the house for Mets tickets, Yankees tickets, Red Sox tickets, Cubs tickets as well as Giants football tickets and Jets football tickets.
|
|
|
October 30, 2007
The Argument for A-Rod
With Alex Rodriguez opting out of his contract, it seems likely that he’s destined for a new home. While several teams like the Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, and Angels are immediately being floated as suitors, the Mets are not expected to be contenders for his services. Seriously, though: all of the reasons why the Mets should not sign A-Rod are just bad reasons. Let’s take them one at a time. First, there’s no place for him on the Mets, as Jose Reyes and David Wright take up his potential positions. If Alex Rodriguez can still play shortstop at an adequate major league level (and he certainly would have been better than Derek Jeter), then he can play any other position on the diamond (besides catcher…or maybe even catcher, too). That means second base, first base, left field, etc. The Mets could move David Wright to second and play A-Rod at third. Then, when Carlos Delgado’s contract is up, Wright could go back to third, while A-Rod (in the second of his eight-to-ten years with the Mets) goes to first. Or perhaps he stays at third, and the Mets sign one of those power-hitting first basemen. And don’t say, “The Mets shouldn’t mess with their young left-side of the infield.” Edgardo Alfonzo worked fine at both positions. There was nothing wrong with playing Reyes at second base either, except that he was a better shortstop than Kazuo Matsui. Good teams are willing to make changes like this, and young players have no choice. David Wright is a shining golden-boy and face-of-the-franchise, not Gary Sheffield or Derek Bell (and even Sheffield started as a shortstop before moving all over the place as his career progressed). This is the Mets, not the Yankees: if Wright can play second base, he should. As for A-Rod, his offense will play anywhere on the field for the rest of his career, including outfield and/or first base towards the end. A wealth of good, young players at the only positions A-Rod has already played is no reason not to sign him. If he were a first baseman and the Mets had Albert Pujols, then the argument would hold water. But since he is a shortstop and third baseman, he should be able to move down the defensive spectrum. A second reason people provide not to sign A-Rod is that he isn’t clutch. I can’t say too much about this that Fire Joe Morgan hasn’t already said. Mets fans seem to have similar feelings about Carlos Beltran. Perhaps this “clutch” theme is a manifestation of certain racial prejudices; white players are granted a non-empirical “intangible” quality lacking in their alien colleagues from the Dominican and Puerto Rico. But then again, David Ortiz has a reputation as a great clutch hitter, and he’s from the Dominican. “Clutch” reputation probably has more to do with the perceived enthusiasm and hustle of the player, while players who “effortlessly” achieve results like Beltran and A-Rod are seen as chokers. Whatever the cause of A-Rod’s reputation as a choker (ignoring small-sample size post-season results, which are as good as Derek Jeter’s anyway: .844 OPS for A-Rod, .846 for Jeter), it’s irrelevant. Any thinking fan would rather have A-Rod in the playoffs than Eckstein (.668 postseason OPS) or even Mr. October (.885). Perhaps Ortiz really does have some sort of clutch ability (1.005 in 11 postseason series), but such a quality is so elusive that one would do best to ignore it. The third, and so far the best, reason not to sign A-Rod, is that the asking price in total dollars and length of contract will be far too much, regardless of how good he is. But Alex Rodriguez is only 31 years old, and with his skill set and limited injury history, there is no reason to expect a rapid fat first baseman-type decline in his career. Last year he stole 24 bases and was only caught four times, continued to rate well in most defensive metrics, and posted the best offensive numbers of his career. With today’s high level of strength and conditioning coaching and A-Rod’s long-lasting body type, we can expect him to perform very, very well for many years to come. What about the price? We can expect A-Rod’s WARP3 numbers to be anywhere from 9-14 for the duration of his eight-to-ten year contract. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say he averages a WARP-3 of only 10, while the Mets pay him $30 million per year. In this case, the Mets pay $3 million for each additional win. Barring injury, this is probably closer to the worst return we can rationally expect on his contract. With the weakness of National League pitching, it’s possible A-Rod could have an average WARP of 12 or 13 over the life of the contract. Teams looking to sign A-Rod need to weigh the value of having all that guaranteed value over replacement against the risk of having all that value locked up in one player, but paying $3 million per additional win is not a terrible proposition. Then there is the marquee value attached to A-Rod. The Mets won’t need a ton of help selling out Citi Field, but having A-Rod certainly won’t hurt. Where he’ll really help is pushing the Mets over the edge to make them perennial playoff contenders. A-Rod is worth more to a team like the Mets, who are an 85-90 win team and on the verge of greatness, than the mediocre Pirates, who wouldn’t be good enough to make the playoffs even with 12 additional wins. In Baseball Between the Numbers, Nate Silver calculated that an appearance in the playoffs nets a team $1.4 million for each home playoff game and $14.9 million dollars in future revenue. The Mets lost a ton of money by falling just short in 2007; bringing A-Rod on board would help to insure against that happening again. Finally, A-Rod will be able to forge his own legacy on the Mets. On the Yankees, A-Rod was treated like the dirt between Derek Jeter’s toes, a pretender to the greatness of Bernie Williams and Scott Brosius, a mere mortal when compared to Don Mattingly and Paul O’Neill. On the Mets, he won’t be compared to any paragons of greatness from seasons past but might actually be appreciated for the great player he is. Furthermore, his presence might help take the spotlight off other players, giving them more of a rest from the occasionally difficult New York environment. It’s far-fetched. It’s unlikely. But it’s not a bad idea. John Peterson hates old players on principle. You can read his stylized ravings regularly at Blastings! Thrilledge. 100 Responses to “The Argument for A-Rod”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. |
advertisement:highest rated journals:
recent user journals:
advertisement:recent articles:
features:
other:your ad here:advertisement: |
Not so fast, look what Ben Shpigel writes in today’s NYTimes:
Those indications:
1) That Rodriguez was likely to become a free agent, freeing him to sign with any MLB team
2) That the Mets are in fact an MLB team
Shpigel could be on CSI.
I’ve posted this in the earlier threads, but if they sign A-Rod, there is just no way that David Wright plays 2B. Second base is a far more demanding position than third — it’s a huge transition. You can’t compare him to Edgardo Alfonzo — Wright is nowhere near the fielder Fonzie was (Alfonzo was a natural middle infielder with lots of experience at SS and 2B). Heck, if Wright wound up being an ok second baseman, then the Mets coaching staff should be canned for not playing him there already, where his offense would be worth far more. No, the fact that he plays third and not SS or 2B is pretty good evidence in and of itself that he can’t play those positions competently, and based on what I’ve seen with him, I agree with Mets management that he’d be a total train wreck at 2B. No, if the Mets sign A-Rod, A-Rod goes to third and Wright would wind up in LF, and then possibly moved to 1B after Delgado departs.
There’s a fourth reason not to have A-Rod anywhere near the Mets: he’s a major jerk. So crass to allow his manager to announce his opt-out decision during the World Series. I know it’s unscientific, perhaps even ungeeky, call it Bahktin’s gut if you like, but i think he’s a poison chalice. Seriously, I think attitude and A-hole-ness is a valid reason why not to sign someone.
Adding A-Rod to the Mets would be like putting Dane Cook in a Wes Anderson movie. Maybe they can get him, but it’s going to cause headaches and generally take the fun out of it.
Well argued, BT, even if you did skirt the real knock on him: known glove slapper.
I agree that I did ignore the major issue of A-Rod’s being a jerk. I just don’t know how to respond to that. I guess my attitude is that most professional athletes are going to be jerks to some extent; there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that they think they are better than normal people. And to have the immense talent of an A-Rod or a Barry Bonds often separates a person from the mass of ordinary humans. I know this isn’t an excuse to be a jerk, but it does help explain some things.
I mean, are we arguing that the Mets are an organization of class and character that just couldn’t stomach an A-Rod? Or are we just limiting ourselves to paragons of virtue like Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, Vince Coleman, Bret Saberhagen, Bobby Bonilla, Rickey Henderson, etc. etc.? I guess that’s a different kind of thing.
Tom Glavine is a “classy guy” by all accounts, but I’d much rather see A-Rod don the blue and orange in 2008 than Tom Tolerable. “Not devastated?” Even A-Rod wouldn’t say that.
And finally, I think Wes Anderson could find a range of talent in Dane Cook that we haven’t seen. The characters in his films are often eccentric egomaniacs, after all. Cook’s comedy often contains some very astute observations cloaked under that vulgar sentimentality; there is no reason (other than preserving a reputation) that Anderson couldn’t deemphasize the latter in favor of the former.
paragons of virtue like Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, Vince Coleman, Bret Saberhagen, Bobby Bonilla, Rickey Henderson, etc. etc.?
You forgot Dave ¨rat in a box¨ Kingman.
On paper, it would be great to have ARod and if the Mets get him, I probably won’t be whining like I did when they traded for Delgado. He is certainly not in decline and I can easily see him averaging 45 home runs for the next five years, and 40 home runs a year for the next three. If he doesn’t get injured that is….Like Wally D, I cannot see DW playing second, in particular, turning the double play. But, though I don’t give Willie a lot of credit, but I would trust Wilie’s judgement as to whether Wright will make it as a second basemen. If Wright were two inches taller, I’d say put him at first. I share Baktin’s concern; I do worry about the best player on the team not being a team player. This may not be true of ARod. I however, like DW as the face of the Mets - nice guy, humble, etc.
JP, I am no Glavine fan, but I appreciated his statement about not being devastated. I think it is good for our children’s role models to point out that a game is a game, and nothing more.
After what He and Boras did to upstage the WS I say
NO TO AROTTEN.
This guy is all about himself and how much money he can make. This kind of Ego is whats killing baseball and sports in general. I doubt he comes to Mets but If he did and Omar was tampering behind the scenes i will say NO to Mets period.
I hope Omar is not that dumb
You go, Omar…
And finally, I think Wes Anderson could find a range of talent in Dane Cook that we haven’t seen. The characters in his films are often eccentric egomaniacs, after all. Cook’s comedy often contains some very astute observations cloaked under that vulgar sentimentality; there is no reason (other than preserving a reputation) that Anderson couldn’t deemphasize the latter in favor of the former.
also, there is no compelling reason not to replace chocolate chips with rat turds. both are small and brown. the cookies may not taste the same, but people will still buy them.
I am not sure that John’s plan would work, for several reasons.
First: You have, in one scenario, A-Rod moving to first base in year 2. Would A-Rod be willing to switch positions at that point in his career? What about right now? Maybe he wants to play SS again, which would preclude his coming to the Mets. We don’t know what A-Rod wants.
Second: You say that David Wright, as a young player, could move to left field or first base. When the new Mets management took over and got the Mets heading in the right direction (does anyone dispute that premise?), they said that they would stress athleticism and fundamentals. This means that defense is important. I would expect that David Wright would be a decent left fielder, but that’s a gamble - we’d be putting him at a position at which he has never played. Same logic applies with Wright as a first baseman. Plus Wright is a bit short for that position.
Third: A 10 year contract is always a gamble, with any player. Look at Shawn Green. In 2003, Green was 30 years old, coming off of back to back seasons where he hit 49 and 42 homers. In 2001, he stole 20 bases, so he wasn’t slow. Now, a mere four years later, Mets geeks are talking about using him on the bench, or getting rid of him. How would you like to be paying him 30 million+ for each of the next five seasons?
I won’t say anything about the impact that A-Rod could have on team chemistry other than to say that chemistry and the dynamic of the team as a whole is important.
One more minor point: I don’t think that Beltran is perceived as not being “clutch”. I certainly don’t see him that way. I remember his monster post-season with Houston. I am happy overall with Beltran’s performance in the clutch as a Met.
Final point: When the Yankees signed A-Rod, in spite of the fact that they already had a SS, and moved the guy who was likely to have been the best SS in the history of the game to third base, I took it as an affront to baseball.
Mets - just say no to A-Rod.
Bravo John Peterson.
Excellent analysis. I feel the tide changing.
Barry Bonds is a jerk.
Milton Bradley is a Jerk.
Jeff Kent is a Jerk.
A Rod doesnt fall in this group at all.
I mean we took a coke addicted hard partying Keith Hernandez and made him into an icon in NY who brought us a World Series and is now everyone’s favorite broadcaster..
The Omar statement is a big smoke screen.
I bet he’s salivating right now.
We need to get over the top ASAP>
Bring him here.
Even if the Mets gave A-Rod an offer he liked, signing w/ the mets would be like him serving a 10 years term at a state penitentiary then when he became a free man buying a nice house across the street.
if they sign Arod to a 10 year deal, they need to be sure there IS an opt out clause in every year from year 3 on, then hope the hell he opts out.
The house across the street from the penitentiary must look like a paradise to those inside.
Nice try, but I still want nothing to do with ARod.
Wright is not a 2B and never will be. The Mets need a starter, at least 1 righty reliever, a catcher and a 2B. ARod is none of those things.
Sorry I want nothing to do with Arod, all your points are valid, I still dont want him.
DW hits a game winning home run and he can get asked how Arod feels about not hitting it.
No thanks, I really dont want to root for a mets team that is Arod + 24.
Funny, with all the dumb things Phillips has done and said over the years, the 24+1 comment seems to be right on the money.
This has been written about elsewhere, but I think A-Rod’s decision to opt out during the World Series was to avoid receiving an offer from the Yankees right after the WS concluded, which is probably when Cashman would have extended their offer. I think A-Rod wanted out and he didn’t want to be embarrassed by accepting less money to play someplace else. People would then say he was running away. This, of course, wouldn’t bode well for any effort by the Mets to sign him.
Clutch nowadays means hits walk-off homeruns a lot or does well on national tv. Knocking players for not being “clutch” goes back to at least Ted Williams, and is one of the many ways one can manipulate stats to prove whatever they want to. There are some people who do perform better with full adrenaline, and others who are good at exploiting those who don’t perform better with too much adrenaline, and those seem to be the ones who succeed in the post-season, like Ortiz or Ricky Henderson or Paul Molitor.
I agree that it seems that A-Rod would want to get away from New York as much as the Yankees, it’s not like the News and the Post and the Mad Dog’s don’t pay attention to the Mets, and he does seem to like to spread his legacy around. He definitely isn’t like Bonds or Bradley or Kent, he values his public image greatly and likes to keep it well polished (which doesn’t mean his ego isn’t bigger than an aircraft carrier, it just means he knows better than to flaunt it in the media). So to have “Boras” make such an egregious misstep with the announcement timing, combine it with the glove slapping, the feeding into the tabloid frenzy to sate a need for attention, it doesn’t make me want to have him on a team I’m rooting for. Even with the expected luxury box revenue bump, 30 million is a LOT of money, and a lot of love to show for someone who doesn’t seem to show much in return.
And yes, many, many adored past Mets have had checkered pasts or been less than ideal citizens during their time in Shea, but to say that legitimizes more of the same is like starting a dating site that matches women who were abused with men who like to hit them.
And to criticize Glavine for not being devastated is like throwing a tantrum because the bike you got for Christmas isn’t as cool as the kid across the street. You should want your players to care about winning and give a full effort, you shouldn’t want them to be willing to kill to win or sell their soul, or are we in favor of steroids now? It was insane when everyone jumped on Manny Ramirez during the playoffs, and hilarious when they won anyway and the spin became his relaxation helped the team. Let’s not become soccer hooligans, or worse, Boston fans.
so when does Arod announce he wants to stay a yankee?
i think that’s definitely coming. To try and draw the yankees back in.
Arod can make the yankees look real bad.
“Well I want to stay here, but they wont negotiate with me any more, its a real shame”
Wally - interesting thought, but there is no reason he couldn’t have opted out Monday morning instead of Sunday night. None. And I would think that would be just as embarrassing for the Yankees as it would be for ARod.
The man who is quite possibly the greatest player in the history of baseball is available. Nah, he is selfish, let him play else where…
I honestly think Boras chose that evening to opt-out because he wanted Arod being talked about on the World Series broadcast.
He got boston fans to chant “dont sign Arod” literally 5 minutes after their team won the world series.
that is friggin amazing when you really think about it
What if they signed Rodriguez to play short and shopped Reyes as part of a package for a quality starting pitcher? Reyes salary is not burdensome and he still has the potential to draw interest from a fair amount of teams.
I’m sure there were good reasons for the announcement timing, and he probably wanted to avoid anymore managerial controversy with the Yankees, but whatever they were they weren’t good enough for it to be a good idea. My understanding was that the Yankees made an offer, and wanted to sit down about it, and Boras texted Cashman no thanks. However it went down, it’s public knowledge anyway, so I’m not sure if that was a large factor, but how much of this stuff do we ever really get all the details on?
exactly Dep. Boras performed a calculated strike on the same day the skanks arch rival wins it all. Boras squeezes leverage out of everything he can find until it’s all dried up. What a weasel.
he is a weasel. so true
but why should he care about what MLB wants or the world series?
he has a client, probly the most important client in all of baseball and the most important moment in his career, who pays him to look after his interests.
Boras doesnt get paid by MLB to care about their interests and considering there’s nothing they can do to him, he said F it.
I actually think he did a phenomenal job making it all about arod, and yes weasley and all that, but he doesnt care.
If the feelings of devastation are what you want from your players, check out some of the mantra’s in this article:
http://www.kansascity.com/180/story/336147.html
(most of them are on the second page)
Boras’s interests don’t have anything to do with MLB’s, but they should cover not making his client look like a mercenary that will cause his name to be chanted on national television in a negative way. that’s not just weasely, it’s counterproductive, except the that he operates it probably isn’t, which makes it weasely and worse.
anyone who signs with Boras is already labelled a mercenary.
you dont sign with Bora$$ except for one reason, to get the most money.
maybe he strengthened that view with what he did, but it was already out there.
Boras got the attention he wanted, but in the process he pissed off one of the few teams who could afford to bid for ARod. Even if he doesn’t want to go to Boston, it is always good to have those deep pockets around to drive up the price. Plus if Boston is involved the Yanks could get back into it.
ah, i gotcha. that’s an interesting point.
i wonder if Boras knew the BoSox were not bidding and thus didnt care about pissing them off.
Let’s put A-Rod on one scale and a pitcher like Santana on the other. I don’t think the Mets can afford to get both A-Rod and a marquee pitcher.
I’d rather have the marquee pitcher. And the marquee pitcher would still be cheaper than A-Rod.
GM’s don’t overreact like fans. Boston and every other team out there will not cross ARod off their list because Boras made the announcement during the WS. They will do what’s right for their ball club. I’m not suggesting BoSox are interested..only suggesting that Lucchino, Henry and Epstein would go after ARod if they thought that best for the club. Personal affronts be damned.
I hope the Angels or Tigers pick him up. No NL teams please.
Who is Lowell’s agent?
I’d love him to be a Met.
Astrubal: Why not both players? I think the Mets can sign both of them. You’re just speculating but you know that Delgado’s contact, Glavine’s contract, they’re all coming off the books in the next few years and it will mean adding only 40 million or so compared to the current payroll.
You might be right future, but I just think the market for pitching is going to be so bad because there aren’t many pitchers and the same teams are going to try to get them.
David Wright can’t be any worse at 2nd base than not having a second baseman, which we don’t. Or maybe A-Rod should move to 2nd base. I am not sure he would actually refuse to do that, it can’t hurt him to learn another position and he is a shortstop, so 2nd base should not be out of reach at all.
Maybe the solution is to get A-Rod and a bunch of cheap young arms and hold out for the right marquee pitcher.
C Low, Lowell is represented by the Levinson brothers
Nah, the solution is to stay as far away from ARod as possible and add pitching.
Pedro is also coming off the books unless we re-sign him, a FA after 08, no?
Why not add both? Pitching and A-Rod.
Stop acting like Wilpon can’t totally afford it. He can.
If A-Rod was signed, you’d have to convince either him or Wright to play LF for a year. Then when Delgado’s contract comes off the books, you move Wright to 1B. The core of Reyes-Wright-Beltran-ARod would be so devastating, it wouldn’t matter much who was pitching.
I’m exaggerating of course, but a 1-5 of Reyes, Milledge, Wright, A-Rod and Beltran would be a hellish meat grinder to get through.
Plus, in a few years A-Rod is going to start putting some serious dents in the record books. It’ll take A-Rod 4 to 5 years to reach 700 home runs; by year 6 or 7 of the contract he’s going to be passing Barry Bonds. Citi Field would be the center of the baseball universe.
I could learn to love him. He’s probably worth the $30 million.
There is another reason why signing ARod is valuable that has not been discussed and that is that another team is going to sign him. One team that has been mentioned is the Cubs. They will be awful tough to beat with ARod added to their already decent mix.
Steve brings up a good point. Don’t really want to see A-Rod in a Cubs uniform.
Hey, I’ll take A-rod, don’t get me wrong. We need another RBI guy especially with Delgado’s slide. But if it comes at the expense of pitching, I don’t want him.
That said, you might be right that it doesn’t have to come at the expense of pitching and if the Mets want to play with the big boys they need a masher like A-Rod, Ordonez, Manny, etc.
I kind of wonder if ARod is thinking about going to Boston as their SS, the weakest position on the Red Sox. This would make Boston far and away the best team in the league and I can’t imagine them not winning some more rings with him there in the next few years.
That is a seriously frightening prospect, WDykstra.
He’d love pounding that Big Monster and Boston was where he was trying to get to before the Players Association quashed that deal.
Maybe the best reason to get A-Rod is so that no other team gets him . . .
3 offseason moves:
1. Sign A-Rod
2. Trade for a starter
3. Sign a #4/5 pitcher
4. Move El-Duque into the pen (replaces Heilman)
I understand that Mr. April has baggage but after last season the Mets have to ensure they make the playoffs.
Assuming the Mets can’t trade Delgado, the Mets could:
1. Shift Reyes to second for one season. He already knows the position. This saves $$$ by not signing a 2B and Beltran bats #2.
2. Shift Wright to RF.
Trading Delgado to the AL is the best option but it’s unlikely.
The Mets also need to get very aggressive in the trade market for a starter. They could package Heilman, an existing starter (Maine or Perez), mix in a CF prospect (Millege or Gomez), and a second tier prospect to go after a Santana, Sabathia, Oswalt, etc… It’s alot but they need a true ACE on this staff. Someone that can break a losing streak in August before things spiral out of control.
Heilman, Maine, and Perez are all nice players but they aren’t going to get this team over the hump.
How high are the Red Sox gonna take that payroll? Maybe they could move the declining Manny Ramirez’ contract.
4 moves - lost count
JK…after 2008, I believe the Red Sox have a lot of contracts coming off. I think that’s when Manny’s contract rolls off. They’re well positioned to contract long term with ARod. 2008 payroll would be high, but I’d say it’s a price worth paying to make them the head and shoulders best team around while really sticking it to the Yankees to boot.
Mrmet, transitioning Wright to RF would be a mistake. You’d first want to put him in LF and see how he does before trying him in RF. I also think moving Reyes anywhere is a mistake. That guy was built for SS and will play SS his whole career. You could try ARod at 2B, if he was willing to try it, but I doubt he would be interested. That’s why I think he winds up at 3B.
Let’s put A-Rod on one scale and a pitcher like Santana on the other. I don’t think the Mets can afford to get both A-Rod and a marquee pitcher.
I’d rather have the marquee pitcher. And the marquee pitcher would still be cheaper than A-Rod.
A-Rod’s value is much greater than Santana’s. Santana can only pitch, at most, 36 games a year. In addition, the free agent market for pitchers is super-inflated, whereas it is reasonable for position players. This situation means that smart organizations will opt to spend their free agent dollars on hitters rather than pitchers. I refer you to Dave Cameron of the U.S.S. Mariner:
Reyes stays at shortstop. There is no way that A-Rod is as good defensively at this point. I think A-Rod would do 2B, I really do. But Wright might be more willing to move.
The question is, would A-Rod prefer the absurd drama of playing for teams like the Mets or Red Sox or would he rather play in a place like Anaheim, where the fans are very rah-rah and forgiving? He’s already got a giant pile of money and wherever he goes he’s going to be the highest-paid player in baseball. If he came out west he could actually be loved. Look at San Fran and Barry Bonds.
Manny’s contract expires at the end of 2008. Also, Matt Clement’s $9M comes off the books at the end of this season. So does Lowell’s $9M.
To fit ARod in, all they have to do is some fancy footwork on the contract. They don’t raise payroll.
#56
I really don’t know what strawman Dave Cameron is arguing against. If you look at most fan blogs, many fans want their teams to blow $30M a year on ARod.
A point about David Wright and second base: 2B is generally considered the more difficult defensive position, since it requires greater range and more athleticism than third. (In the past, third was considered more difficult, as the double play was a less frequent occurrence.) But if we look at David Wright’s rankings in the defensive metrics, he does extremely well. We all know that he has a tendency to throw the ball away or off-line, but in terms of range, he is unequaled amongst major league third basemen. This suggests that he could adapt to second base. Also, the Mets don’t feature many ground ball pitchers, so decreased range at second wouldn’t be terrible.
I think it makes perfect sense: there are no good second basemen available, so make one internally and sign a good player at another position. It’s a better option than countless more years of Matsui/Valentin/Easley/Anderson/Gotay/Castillo/Hernandez types.
I really don’t know what strawman Dave Cameron is arguing against. If you look at most fan blogs, many fans want their teams to blow $30M a year on ARod.
He’s really talking about the Mariners. They “definitely” won’t sign A-Rod, because you know, he’s baaaaaaad, but the fans want to trade every prospect they have for Santana and then sign him for $200 million.
I’m sure some fans of other teams feel the same way.
#62
I’m something of an A’s fan. Go to an A’s blog like Athletics Nation, and you’ll see that prtty much everyone wants ARod, even though they know that there’s no freaking chance of that happening.
Jeff Kent played 2nd base. Case closed. Wright would be more than adequate defensively at 2nd. I want A-Rod now!!!
from earlier today but I didn’t see it posted here (apologies if this is old)
…posted by Matthew Cerrone…
According to a MetsBlog.com poll of more than 3,600 people, 47 percent of those polled do not want free-agent 3B Alex Rodriguez on the Mets, while 38 percent do, leaving 15 percent undecided.
However, this morning, in a report for the Bergen Record, Bob Klapisch writes…
“Early indicators suggest the Mets are leaning toward a full metal jacket courtship of [Rodriguez], pending David Wright’s blessing.”
A Mets insider, as quoted by Klapisch, said…
“We can afford him. It’s going to be a baseball question more than a money question. Do we want him? Is he a good fit for one team? That’s what we have to talk about.”
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if that ‘Mets insider” was a Scott Boras plant….stirring up the pot. You will see every team in baseball’s name associated with ARod before this is all over….with the possible exception of KC or Pittsburgh. Batten down the hatches. This process will drag on ad naseum.
This has been written elsewhere but here goes:
1. Mets sign ARod.
2. Mets trade Reyes to Minn. for Santana.
3. ARod plays SS.
or
1. Mets sign ARod to play 3rd.
2. Wright moves to first.
3. Delgado - see ya.
I don’t profess to have any idea as to how it will play out, but the Mets will be heavily involved.
The Collapse™ saw to that.
I have mixed feelings on it. I see both sides very clearly. The distraction he will cause on the team is immense but gosh he’s darn good and he will only cost money…
The only line I liked from the above is “We can afford him”. Don’t know who said it but its good to know that we have $$ for Santana after we pass on A-Rod. ;)
The Mets are not going to trade Reyes. It’s not going to happen. The notion that the Mets should trade him because he has a palatable contract and thusly is more valuable as a trade ship is laughable. That’s a reason to keep him.
And ARod is no longer a shortstop, or maybe he will be one for 2 more years before he would need to move to preserve his health. That scenario is just not realistic, nor intelligent.
Interesting article, thanks; well-written and thoughtout. That said, I am strongly opposed to Omar signing A-Rod.
Here’s the first reason, which may be enough for some: he likes she-males, see http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/05/31/report-alex-rodriguez-likes-the-she-male-muscular-type/2
In addition (and more seriously), the main reason is one only indirectly addressed by John: A-Rod is the new Bonds - and the team that signs him is going to have to deal with the me-me-me-first mantra, the specticle of the all-time homerun race, the fact he is treated differently than the rest of the roster, and makes up 30% of the payroll of the team. It’s A-Rod first and then the other 24 other guys, not a TEAM. He has to dominate all press coverage, even if it interrupts the deciding game of the world series.
Here’s what Buster Olney said the other day on this:
If you buy into A-Rod, well, he has to effectively own your team. He has to dominate your clubhouse. He has to be the story. His salary demands virtually require all of that, because no matter where he goes, A-Rod will likely account for 20-35 percent of his next team’s payroll. He must be bigger than the manager, bigger than his teammates.
His pursuit of Barry Bonds’ record will be the focal point of your organization, the way that Bonds’ chase of Aaron possessed the Giants the last five years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=3084735
I completely agree. Moreover, if the Sox showed anything in the Series it was that the best championship teams are just that, 25 guys, a TEAM, not a 1 man show. With A-Rod, it’s the gossip pages, the questions of “clutch,” all that stuff. At the end of the day, you sell tickets but don’t win championships.
Finally, John, your analysis of the potential 09 Santana comparision (only 36 game in regular season, etc..) neglected to factor in the post-season issue, where a big game starting pitcher can be the difference the way a single hitter cannot: see, e.g., Josh Beckett this year ALCS, Schilling and Johnson in 2001, Gibson in ‘67, Ruth himself in 1918, Smokey Joe Wood in ‘12, Big Train Walter Johnson in 24, Glover Cleveland Alexander in 1926, the list goes on and on. History teaches us that a 1A Ace pitcher can be the difference maker in October in a unique way. I’m not sayin that Santana is in their class, but of any active pitchers besides Josh Beckett (after this postseason), he has the best chance to be.
My 2 cents. Just Say No Omar.
Not to mention that it increases the payroll by about $50 million for next year. Just not realistic.
I’m torn about the whole bigger-than-the-team thing. I mean, Bonds and the Giants were silly, but the Giants just suck as an organization. Bonds was in a terrible lineup on a terrible team. But that wouldn’t be the case with A-Rod and the Mets.
If A-Rod is making 30 mil. and Beltran is making 18 mil. and Delgado is making 16 mil. and Pedro is making 11 mil., does it really matter?
With A-Rod, it’s the gossip pages, the questions of “clutch,” all that stuff. At the end of the day, you sell tickets but don’t win championships.
There are going to be questions of clutch and gossip pages no matter who’s playing for the Mets (or Yankees). Paul Lo Duca is all over the damn back pages and he sucks. Wouldn’t you rather your back-page drama, which you’ll have no matter what, feature the best player in the game and not an old catcher who is more known for “heart and soul” than actual on-field performance?
Some people would disagree. But it seems like it’s all the same to me. A-Rod goes to she-male-type strippers, Lo Duca cheats on his wife with teenage girls. Some players pump their fists and bulge out their eyes, some stare pensively into the sky. I’d rather ignore all that stuff and take the best player on the field. (But then again, I live inside a computer in my mom’s basement.)
That’s how you win championships. Sure it’s nice that Dustin Pedroia gave up his scholarship so that ASU could sign some players to help the team win, but the Red Sox like him because he can hit, plays well at a position with scarce major league talent, and gets a high on-base percentage. Manny Ramirez is a selfish jerk until his team wins a World Series, then he’s just a kooky character.
Most of this stuff is illusory. I don’t care what ESPN or the newspapers choose to focus on; I just want to watch the Mets dominate the National League.
JP, couldn’t agree more. The truth is that while everyone wants pitching, it is harder and harder to come by. And getting Sanata, imo is a pipe dream. If he gets traded ( which I doubt) there are many teams I could name with better offers than the Mets can make. Can you wait until 2009…sure, but what’s the guarantee he comes to the Mets. The truth is…if you can’t get the pitchers, you might as well be able to out hit the other team. Whether we don’t like ARod as a person ( and that’s perfectably understandable) the truth is the guy won 2 MVP’s in 4 years…had 156 RBI’s, 140 something runs scored and hit 50 + HRs. You don’t have to like him, but you’d be crazy to think the guy doesn’t make an impact. And the last time I read the rules, you have to make the playoffs to be eligible to win the WS.
For me, ARod is something I would love to see happen, but I won’t be that disappointed if it doesn’t happen. I went down that road 7 years ago, but now this is a different team, and while ARod makes us clearly the best team in the NL (if we are not already there), he is not the only way to make that happen and I have to admit that even I am worried about spending THAT much money on a single player no matter what Wilpon can afford.
As for some of the other stuff. This “ARod is a jerk” thing is just simply foolish, ARod has done quite a bit as a TEAM player over the years and his treatment by the Yankees and specifically Torre & Jeter are what should be considered wrong and “jerks” for their attitudes. I think you could argue that ARod is a bad clubhouse influence if you only had the Yankees to go by, but you never heard those things before the Yankees and what I saw with the Yankees let me to have more trouble with the “true” Yankee players than ARod.
As for Boras, we all know he is an a$$hole, but wouldn’t we all like to have him on our side when negotiating a contract?
It’s also worth mentioning that the Mets could provide a nice contrast to the Yankees. While Derek Jeter refused to move for A-Rod despite being an inferior shortstop, David Wright would graciously move for A-Rod because it’s best for the team.
I agree ARod is running from the Yankees, but I don’t necessarily agree that he is running away from NY. It all depends on what his problem was with the Yankees. The Media will follow him everywhere and there will be few places he will find a media that won’t treat him the same way as they did here, and those few places will not be on his list of places to play in (I mean could you imagine how happy he would be in St. Louis, but he would never take the money they could offer him).
No, I think the reason ARod wants no part of the Yankees is because he wants no part of that TEAM. Whether or not he wants nothing to do with their fans and follows that through with the Mets is something I am not sure about. But I think ARod hates the way he was treated by the Yankees and their fans, I dont think the media was his problem.
Of course, living in the same city where more than half of the town follows those other guys may not be enjoyable. But playing for HIS boyhood team accross town while showing up the team that chose Jeter over him in every possible way probably wouldn’t hurt his feelings.
I think ARod would fit in better on the Mets than on the Yankees. I mean, ARod came into a Yankee clubhouse dominated by Jeter, Mr. Clutch, the Lord of the Rings, who played the same position as ARod. ARod surely felt like at all turns he was being held up to Jeter and expected to accomplish, in terms of championships, what Jeter is credited (rightly or wrongly) as accomplishing. And Jeter surely resented the public debate that had everybody mostly agreeing that ARod was a better SS than him and questioning his loyalty to the team for not moving to make room for Alex. So you had this highly public conflict which really made it hard for ARod to fit in. You don’t have that with the Mets. ARod so eclipses everybody in the Met clubhouse that there’s nobody there to feel like their turf is being invaded. Consequentially, I think ARod would feel much more comfortable in his own skin in a Met uniform. I also think Wilpon could afford him with ease. That being said, ARod would still have the NY press to deal with, and unfortunately, now he’d be bringing his Yankee baggage with him, which would make it harder than it would have been back when the Mets had their first crack at him.
This is a really interesting conversation. I’m standing by my ‘jerk’ statement, and will add this: I may sound hokey, blame too many schmaltzy narratives when growing up (combined a little with my own limited sports activities) but I do think that, even in the hard assed professional sporting environment, being a *team* matters. Clubhouse vibe matters, mutual energy towards a united goal matters, getting along matters. A-hole wasn’t called “the cooler” for nothing. I think the 24+1 issue is the big thing here.
I think the 24+1 idea is bullcrap.
A-Rod has never been a bad teammate.
So the swirly rumors have no foundation in truth Future?
They’re rumors. Just that. They’re worth bullcrap to me. They’re unsubstantiated rumors created to sell papers.
The swirly rumors all started AFTER the Yankees, so who is at fault, the Yankees and the way they treated him or ARod? He was a model teammate for Seattle and Texas.
Future, I do think the 24+1 arguement has merit, (heck it was the one we used 7 years ago), but not because he is a “bad teammate”.
How quick everyone forgets that ARod was willing to give up LARGE portions of his paycheck to join the Red Sox and after the players union squashed that deal he was willing to be the bigger player and change his position for a LESSER player because of what he meant to that team.
Ohh, and then when he got there the entire team treated him like a lepper and hung him out to dry every chance they got. But ARod is the “evil” player causing a cancer on his team…
Oh man I really want to hear about Omar, Reyes, Alou, Gotay, Pedro #1, Jorge Sosa and even Guillermo Mota all hanging out with A-Rod in San Pedro de Macoris or Santo Domingo or somewhere. Delgado, Castro, Beltran and Pedro #2 are from Puerto Rico, but they can come too. Same with El Duque (Cuba) and Ollie (Mexico). Err, of course DW and the Americans can come, too, but they better be ready to eat sancocho.
On a side note I was on a Dodger forum the other day and there was a huge stir on that board about how signing Torre meant that they had the “inside shot” at signing ARod. I find it hillarious that people think that ARod will follow the manager who made it clear from moment one that he was Jeter’s guy and was half the reason that clubhouse fell apart.
Oh I don’t think it makes a difference what race you are in being called a choke artist. To me it has to do with stardom, the bigger the star you are the more you better come thru.
Now as for Arod being Met, :) hell yes I’M up for it. Let the Yankees give up the farm for Santana. Get Arod, move David over to 1st, trade Delgado for some relief pitching, or a starting pitcher. Not only does that improve the offense but it improves the defense as D.W is a much better fielder then Delgado, more range and more agility at first base. D.W. could be a gold glover at first. second, I won’t have to watch D.W. sail ball after ball over a firstbasemen head from 3rd base. This will also make the team younger and faster. How many times last year was Delgado thrown out at homeplate trying to score on a two out single????
Now that Renteria and Andrew Jones are gone off the Braves where do they get offense from? Tex is going to hit, Chipper can hit when he is in the lineup but after that very little power/speed. FranCoon is more apt of hitting a 3 foot roller then hitting a hr while swinging with all his might.
Why not just do the smart thing… get Arod (30M+ but the revenues in return would greatly offset…), and get rid of Mr. Bored (Delgado)…
Arod’s defense at 1st wouldn’t be any worse, and the offensive upside, the skys the limit.
With the Mets eating a good portion of Delgado’s salary, there should be several takers…
The problem with that, #88, is that you’re now paying upwards of 46 million (30 mil. for A-Rod plus Delgado’s contract) next year for a really-good first baseman. A-Rod’s a great hitter, but you lose value by playing him at first because it’s much, much harder to find a good hitting shortstop, second baseman or even third baseman than a slugging first-sacker.
I don’t really see a huge difference between Gary Sheffield and Carlos Delgado. In 2006, Sheffield posted a robust 107 OPS+ during an injury plagued season with the Yankees. In 2007, Delgado posted a 103 OPS+ during an injury plagued season with the Mets. The Yankees were able to pick up his 1-year option for $13 million and trade him to the Tigers for Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett, which was a really good haul. Sheffield is 4 years older than Delgado.
The Mets’ remaining obligation to Delgado is $16 million. The Marlins pay $4 million of his salary this year, the Mets pay $12 million of it, and then there is a $4 million buyout for a 2009 Team Option. I don’t see how the Mets couldn’t trade him somewhere in the AL and maybe only pick up the $4 million buyout tab, and still get a semi-decent return. Delgado’s deal does not have a no-trade clause that I am aware of.
I’m not saying I want to trade Delgado, but it’s something to consider if the Mets are serious about getting A-Rod.
For me, I don’t care what A-Rod is like to hang out with, it’s not a relevant issue. But the approach he has to the game, as demonstrated by the slapping and upstaging the World Series makes him a player that I would have less fun watching, which I thought was the point of being a fan. You know, watching baseball. At the same time, I was very against Pedro coming to the Mets for similar reasons, and he changed my mind.
But lets look at the 9 figure deals that have happened in baseball. There have been 14 players to receive 100,000,000 or more contracts, the shortest being Carlos Lee’s 6 year deal. So far, only Todd Helton, Manny Ramirez, and Albert Pujols have made it to the World Series, with the latter two being the only ones to win it. I know several of these deals are new-ish, and 100,000,000 is ultimately an arbitrary cut-off point, and I’m not trying to say that a deal like this will keep a team out of the series, I am just wary of them. Very wary. Wilpon seems to be a pretty wealthy guy, but there has to be a limit to what they can spend. Did they like paying Mo Vaughn 34 million for 27 games over two years? Just look at the top salaries that have been payed out:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_salaries.shtml
(i stopped reading at chan ho park)
And why is A-Rod the best player in the game? Albert Pujols is a better hitter, with comperable power, who has played both corners of the infield and outfield, with competent to outstanding results. He doesn’t steal like A-Rod, but that’s it. And he’s younger. A-Rod is going to be the history watcher/maker for rest of his career, but I can think of a number of players that can have a comperable impact on a game. I just think that there are other players out there without the baggage and the fianancial commitment that can be brought in instead.
If we wanted to dump Delgado and pick up some of the tab (maybe another 4 mil to the 4 mil that the Marlins are in for), we could easily get a decent trade back for him. To me if our end goal is to get Wright to 1B i would rather have him go directly to 3rd rather than picking up another position in between. However, I think moving him out to LF makes more sense allows us to use lastings as the 4th OF which will get a lot of at bats with Alou in the OF with Beltran.
Still think it is a long shot, but if it does happen I think it would be more likely to happen out to LF permenantly than just 1 season.
When people say “A-Rod is the best player in baseball”, they are really saying “A-Rod is on the short list of players who might reasonably be considered the best in baseball”. He isn’t quite the hitter Pujols is, but he makes up for that to some degree by hitting as he does at third base instead of first base (very good first basemen are much easier to find that very good hitting third basemen).
If A-Rod isn’t the best player in baseball, then he is one of the two-or-three best (probably one of the two best, along with Pujols), and none of the other “best” players are readily available for just a boatload of cash and a draft pick. The closest thing would be Miguel Cabrera, who isn’t quite as accomplished as A-Rod (though he is younger), and you’d have a tough time prying him away from the Marlins for less than a couple of future superstars.
aussie, Pujols is a fantastic hitter, but he is only an above average 1B and was never really a great fit for “both corners” yes he is younger, and if I had a choice to sign the both of them today I would probably pick Pujols, but ARod is the better player in terms of history and where they will rank all time.
I say sign Barry Bonds. He wont cost as much, hits about the same and has about the same personality.
Yep, and Cabrera’s fat — really, REALLY fat. The only thing he hits harder than he hits baseballs is the postgame spread.
Pujols Jr. is right. And the wind cries first base…
just look at the top salaries that have been payed out
6 of the top 10 and 10 out of the top 20 players on the list of highest career salaries have won the World Series. That doesn’t seem out of line with what we’d expect.
I noticed that Mike Mussina, at #10, joined the Yankees in 2001. Perhaps he is the reason for their Championship drought?
After that it’s 15 out of 30, and then only 17 out of 41.
You can’t put Miguel Cabrera in the list of the best players in baseball and not put David Wright in that same list.
Wright was better than Cabrera last year.
The Mets already have Wright, so there’s no need to discuss how they might get him and what it might cost to do so ;-)
Ha, fair enough Eric!