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July 7, 2006
It’s not clear how long Owens will be with the team, but he almost wasn’t at all:
Don’t count on Willie Randolph using Owens for anything but mop-up, which could very well mean he’s pitching tonight after Lima Time! opens the floodgates. Eric Simon has far too much time on his hands. He sleeps upside-down, keeps people as pets, and can be found on the internets at Amazin' Avenue or bothered directly at eric@metsgeek.com. 94 Responses to “MLB.com: Owens Recalled”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. |
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some caller brought up a good point on WFAN: Heilman may be concealing an arm injury. He looks uncomfortable, never has a smile on his face and always appears to be shaking his arm after pitches, more than ever before according to the particular caller. God forbid this is another case of a Mets pitcher refraining from disclosing an injury to Willie and Peterson.
Hasan may have a good point but im thinking Heilman has just finally had enough not even being considered for a start. He was in a lose-lose situation. If he pitched well in the pen, then he would stay. If the didn’t pitch well he would stay in the pen. I think Heilman just decided, either on purpose or subconsciouslly that he does not care anymore
Not wishing Lima bad luck, but I’m very curious to see Owens. I hope he gets to pitch some innings and let us see what’s behind those eye-popping farm numbers.
Isn’t it great to get a couple of young guys with potential come up? Your imagination can run free. Sure, it’s not likely that either Pelfrey or Owens will ever be named major league All Stars. Cold history says you can’t be sure either of them even establishes themselves in the bigs.
But these are the kind of guys that you can dream about. It’s what makes summer fun.
I wanna see Owens in action. Howie blathered on and on about him last night (51 Ks in 25 IP apparently) so much that I have to see his stuff now.
Well said, Mike P….All that and a 12.5 game division lead make summer fun!!!
Heilman has never looked happy, he never smiles. The arm shake may be a sign of something, I give you that, even though I hadnt really noticed it, but I will look for it now. But the guy is a stoic kinda dude and I think ppl are reading into facial expressions way too much.
Heilman was smiling plenty in the dugout the other night. He’s just one of those stoic guys.
So last night, in the 1AM Hour, someone called into Evan Robert’s show…
the guy seemed very knowledgable in baseball and said he had seen Henry Owens in action many times this season and as recently as a week ago.
Here’s what he said: Owens has a dominating fastball with movement that runs from 92-97 and can top out at 98/99MPH.
Here’s the bestest part: He said Owens has a splitter that IS ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING. And he said he has a HARD SLIDER WITH BITE.
He got me all excited becuz info on his secondary pitches has been hard to find.
If this kid has a splitter and a slider to go with his fastball, can you say closer of the future?
Exactly David, I meant Heilman never ever smiles when on the mound pitching.
There’s nothing wrong with wishing Lima bad luck. The win-win situation is Lima falling apart, again, but the Mets hitting enough to still win the ballgame. Lima having one fluke okay start against an inexperienced team, convincing Willie to give him a few more starts to blow? That’s almost as bad as a loss.
A fresh arm in the bullpen, even if its because Omar doesn’t know how the DL works, even if its just for four games… even if he’s not initially outstanding or anything… its a really good move. Heilman and Wagner aren’t looking like Heilman and Wagner exactly because they’re being overused, though certainly Heilman moreso.
Better to give the new kid a few innings in games that will probably turn out to be blowouts (though in which direction, who knows?) and let Aaron and Bill ice those arms down a little, make the All-Star Break help all the more.
My only question is: who gets sent down for Pelfrey to be promoted. If Lima gets bombed it better be him, but Owens has options so I expect we might not even get to see him pitch.
The pitching roster moves over the next few weeks are intriguing. When the dust settles and Pedro comes off the DL it will be interesting who is left. I think we can only keep one of Maine/Lima/Pelfrey. It would really disappoint me if another of those three are kept on at Owens’ or even Bell’s expense.
does anyone please know what the scheduled start time is for tomorrow’s night game? The probable pitcher lists shows Pelfrey starting the second game of the doubleheader and I am freaking praying that the game starts after 7:00pm EST so that it’s not blacked out on MLB.TV Anyone know the deal? The 1st game is at 1:20pm which worries me that the 2nd will start at 5:30 or something…
The second game of the double-header will begin 30 minutes after the first game ends. If the first game runs three hours you can expect the second game to begin around 5ish.
I thought the savior was pitching the first game???? MLB.com says otherwise, by I’ve been reading Pelfrey for the first game all over the internet.
If its game 1, you got Fox. If not, CALL THE MLB.TV PEOPLE AND TELL THEM THAT YOU ARE BEING BLACKED OUT, BUT SHOULDN’T. THEY WILL ASK FOR YOUR IP ADDRESS (whatsmyip.com) AND SOME OTHER STUFF AND IT WILL BE SET RIGHT FOR YOU TO WATCH. I did it two weeks ago, and it worked.
I believe Pelfrey is pitching the 1st game, so you may be okay. It’s an old fashioned DH….30 minutes after the 1st game.
Could we all stop with the conspiracy theories on Heilman. Maybe he just needs some rest. Last year, his 2nd half was incredible. Let’s just wait and see.
Which one of you Geeks gets the pleasure of writing up the Lima/Willis matchp tonight? Can’t wait to read it.
I cannot wait to see if this Owens kid is any good. He’s already gotten rid of Heath Bell…imagine the wonders he could work if he actually pitches a game! Maybe he could heal Pedro’s hip, Floyd’s knees, and reverse the time continuim so as to travel back to 2003 in an attempt to assassinate Jim Duquette before he pulls off the Kazmir-Zambrano trade!
I am pretty sure I remember Heilman always doing that arm thing. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
I will be severely disappointed if Owens is sent back down to call up Pelfrey. If Lima has a decent start tonight, chances are that is what is going to happen, and we may never even see young Owens step on the mound.
, huh?
Heh, heh, no way I can pass this one up!
1. His real name is Aaron “Sieg” Heilman, and despite his apparent youth, he’s really the 121 year-old Fuhrer, returned from his self-imposed exile in the Andean Highlands after 60 years.
2. Garrison’s “Magic Bullet,” you know the one that appeared to turn around after shattering Conelly’s arm before plunging into JFK’s skull? Heilman. Look how his pitches are never straight.
3. The 20th Highjacker? Uh-huh.
4. It’s actually Heilman who’s buried in the end-zone at Giants Stadium. The guy picthing for the Mets is an old man former union boss who’s actually been DEAD for 30 years.
That’s why he sucks lately.
5. The Hanging Chads? You know, the ones that turned the 2000 election, and the inability for the Jets’ QB to throw the ball more than 13 yards on the fly? You got it, Heilman.
I mean, think about it, folks. Think about it. What’s the name of the righty reliever who might take Aaron’s job? Chad.
Think about it.
* * *
And, if I can risk pissing people off even more, let me repeat what I said at the Gorzinibby Open Thread post earlier: new Mets post up on my blog. How’s that for your conspiracy. Bliss is but a click on my name away! (And, no, that didn’t make any sense. I know that.)
I’m pretty sure Lima is going back down after the game tonight no matter how he pitches. If they send down Owens that would leave only 6 relievers for the doubleheader, 5 if Oliver throws 3 innings tonight as expected. With Maine and Pelfrey each going only 5, maybe 6 innings, that leaves a lot of innings for the pen.
el Duque also may be an option out of the pen this weekend since he won’t start again for at least a week. Not sure if he’d be available Saturday , but they could use him on Sunday(on 3 days rest) if the rest of the pen is overworked the next 2 days.
It will be interesting to see who the 5th starter is next time through - whoever it is won’t pitch until July 20th, so maybe they’ll send Maine and Pelfrey both down to get a start at AAA and call Bell back up.
We’ll put it this way, if sane people are running the show, Lima goes down to open the roster spot… maybe Maine… or some sort of wishlist “unconditionally release Eli Morrissey” move. But, yeah, as it is, they’ll probably use the “He has OPTIONS!” excuse and dunk Owens back down, maybe just down to Norfolk, though.
Why would you CARE about losing Maine or Lima, its not like they’re actual insurance plans. They’re fake insurance plans because they’re not any good. If they were good, yeah, bounce the rookies around to keep them.
But they’re… not.
It amuses me that in other threads, people were talking about 25 year old John Maine in the same breath as Lima, as a washed up veteran, and in this thread 27 year old Hank Owens is a ‘kid’. Heh.
I’m hoping Lima gets DFA’d again (wonder what the record for DFA’s before the all-star break is), but I’m afraid Owens is only up for the Friday game. I think that would be a real mistake.
I predict that Lima time will come to fruition tonight at Shea! Know why? Cause if it does I look like a genius, if doesn’t noone will care…
Maine looked very good last time out. I see a lot more potential in Maine than Soler. At least Maine isn’t afraid to throw strikes. Maine tired when he got over 90 pitches - unfortuantley that came in the 5ht inning. If they can stretch him out to 6 innings he will be a decent 5th starter.
Mike C. - While we all agree on Lima, I don’t understand your hatred for John Maine. He’s a young guy (25), with all of 50 innings at the major league level spread out over the last 3 years. His minor league track record was really good, and then the Orioles rushed him to the bigs in 2004, and he took a step backward.
I see a guy with a low 90s fastball who can also mix in a decent changeup, slider or curveball. With some seasoning, he could easily become a Trachsel-type back-end of the rotation guy. There is no reason to be so down on him.
Can someone explain what the big deal is about whether Heath Bell is on the roster or not?!?
He’s a mop-up guy! WHO CARES?!
The Mets better stop jerking around with Lemon Time - complete waste of a start and a turn off to watch as a fan.
WHy would the Mets go with a 4 man bench by releasing Marrero?
Mike C. - What do you have against John Maine?
Its like the guy did something to you growing up.
He has not pitched as bad as you make it seem.
Isn’t it great to get a couple of young guys with potential come up? Your imagination can run free. Sure, it’s not likely that either Pelfrey or Owens will ever be named major league All Stars. Cold history says you can’t be sure either of them even establishes themselves in the bigs. ”
Bro, Pelfrey definityl has the potential to be an all star for eyars to come. 6′7, devestating movement on his fastball and sharp curve, this guy is our anchor of the future, and definitly a top pitcihng prospect. Sure its an early call up and a fill-in start, I’m not expecting the world now. But this guy is a stud, make no bones about it. Im excited to see him pwn the Marlins.
You have more to gain then lose. Safe bet
I don’t think there’s any way the Mets are going into a double header with two rookies starting with only 6 relievers, especially considering the pen will probably have to pitch 4 innings tonight. Owens is staying up, Lima is going down. And I would think either Maine or Pelfrey will go down after the double header (or maybe even between games) so they can activate Bell.
Its not a sharp curve, its a Slurve. Its a real work in progress. He also throws a changeup to left handed hitters.
I wouldnt be surprised if Owens would be demoted if he throws 2 or more innings tonight and seeing a fresh arm in the pen for the doubleheader tomorrow (probably Schmoll or Ring). If Pelfrey is pitching in game 2, The Mets will decide to send down either Lima or Maine so they can call Pelfrey up. They will send down whoever pitches the worse between the 2
I don’t think Owens will go more than 1 inning. Willie said last night he’s not a guy who can give you multiple innings. I would send down Lima tonight to activate Pelfrey, then send down whoever starts game 1 to active Bell for the second game and for Sunday. Then when Pedro coems back either Owens or Bell goes back down depending on how Owens pitches.
It’d probably be Schmoll, Ring is pitching in the AAA all-star game. That shouldn’t matter though. It should be all hands on deck for this series.
A case could be made that Schmoll is the hottest reliever in our farm system right now.
I know your just reporting what Willie said but do you ever believe anything he says? I don’t
I still say the kid should pitch the first game. Hes gonna be all juiced up for his first M.L. start, by the time the second game rolls along he may not even me mentally ready. Start him in the first and let him get all amped up.
I don’t think they’d throw Owens for more than 1 inning - he has only thrown 25 innings in 23 appearances this year and he had an elbow problem last month. If the Mets gets killed tonight, and I see no reason to think they won’t, I think Lima goes 5, Oliver 3 and Owens pitches the ninth.
Do the Mets still have a triple A ball club? How come all these players are coming from AA ball? Soler, Owens, Pelfry, etc. If they are on the radar for a promotion to the big leagues, shouldn’t they spend some time in AAA? Why wasn’t Pelfrey & Owens in AAA, say, about a month ago? Well, besides the fact that Lima was in AAA and they didn’t want to contiminate the young pitchers?
Considering (by looking at the sched) that we don’t even NEED a 5th until around the 22nd - and Pedro should be back by then - it’ll be Lima that gets demoted. Maine is a better starter and he might actually have a future in this rotation.
Bell can’t get called up within the next week or so, unless someone else goes to the DL.
They’ve already gone through most of their AAA staff - Lima, Bell, Maine, Gonzalez, Fortunato
A lot of ppl believe that you dont want your top prospects in AAA. AAA is usually made up of AAAA players and has-beens. They dont want the prospects picking up bad habits from these guys or even being around them.
If we can take 3 of 4 from the marlins in this series, I will be ecstatic and impressed.
People are going to say oh that’s what the mets should do, win at least 3 if not sweep from a lesser team like the marlins.
Well when Willis is going in game 1 agst Lima, and a doubleheader on saturday, a split is what should be expected (at most) with anything above that being very good.
Joe A. If Lima goes 5 tonight, We’ll be down 10 runs or more by then. Have mercy on us.
Not to be a jerk, but can someone explain to me what Heilman gains if he pitches poorly in the pen?
Is it going to get him moved to the rotation? No, because if he stinks in the pen, why would they think he would be more effective in the rotation?
Is it going to help get him traded? No, because who is going to offer anything of value in return? There is no way Omar is dealing him for crap, the PR would be awful. We all know the Mets are concerned about image.
All it is going to do is cause him to stay in the pen.
Is it possible that he is miffed, sure, but Aaron is more than likely smart enough to realize the above. In addition, he is also smart enough to realize that moving from the pen to the rotation in the middle of the season is not as easy as doing the reverse. He would need to be stretched out, he has thrown more than 50 pitches once this year. He is not going to be able to start and go more than 5 innings.
I know I have posted thoughts similar to this on other threads, but I feel it is worth repeating. Sorry if I bored anyone.
Mike - as usual, funny stuff. Loved the Jets tie in. As a long suffering Jet fan, it brought a chuckle.
Well, the team’s in a total pitching crunch right now. To go with a four-man bench for a few games against theorethically weak teams while they sort out their pitching issues? It wouldn’t be completely crazy. Compared to calling up Lima, it’s downright Einsteinian.
Plus, when the dust settles, it opens the slot for Milledge back up.
I mean, if they’re only going to use Eli Michaelsartsandcrafts as an outfielder anyway…
John Maine? He just gives me the same shakey feeling in my gut that Looper and Benitez did, that Jorge Julio did… that “Oh, man, the team I love is using a Completely Terrible Player and it is not a question of if something bad will happen, it is when” feeling.
The two starts up here, he blew up. Every previous chance he had in Baltimore, he blew up.
What’s to know? Granted, the guy might be young enough to remake himself radically… and good luck on that… but he’s no different than the guy who blew up twice earlier this season, as near as I can tell and…
Oliver starting, going four or five and getting bailed out by a team bullpen effort is preferable.
Soler playing through mild injury is preferable.
Jose Lima and John Maine are options if you’re the Kansas City Royals and no one cares anyway. The Mets are a team that should at least be TRYING to further bury Florida while the opportunity presents itself, 12.5 a little more than halfway into the season isn’t pat enough to say “Oh, lets just throw up ANYBODY, we have the thing locked up”.
That’s what you’re saying with those guys. “If we lose, eh, there’s no worries, there’s no WAY the other guys in the division could get better between now and October.” Those starts are moves of either complacency or flat-out dazed confusion where no one knows what they’re doing and someone says “Oh, they can’t suck as bad as last time” and a bunch of guys in ties start nodding because they don’t know what else to say.
Also? John Maine reminds me of how Benson wasn’t all that and a chip of bags but he was a solid number 3/number 4 starter that would’ve been like gold right now. Just like I probably overfocus on Carlos Delgado’s aging years in months because I know how much potential Mike Jacobs has.
I blame players for the bad deals we got them in, there’s no doubt about that. I don’t think that’s too rare out of a baseball fan, though.
Why are we pitching Lima??? Everyone knows what is going to happen! 3 and 1/3 innings, 5 runs, 7 hits, come on!!! This guys not even good enough to pitch for the Newark Bears!! The Marlins are a young, aggressive bunch of hitter’s, they are going to feast on Lima! They should pitch Pelfrey tonight. He last pitched on Sat night, so he has plenty of rest. It could set the tone for the 4 game series with the Fish. I really think that he would give us 7 strong innings. Any thoughts??? Is this just a “throw away” game tonight, and thats why Lima’s pitching??
I’m going to try this one last time.
To all intents and purposes, John Maine IS a rookie. He was up for a cup of coffee last September and that’s it. Let’s put in perspective:
John Maine is only 25.
He is younger than Alay Soler.
He is younger than Henry Owens.
He is younger than Jeff Keppinger.
He is younger than Victor Diaz.
John Maine has appeared in exactly 13 big league games, which is less than Aaron Heilman had appeared in by the end of 2003.
How good of a prospect is he? Well, let’s look at his minor league credentials from 2002-2004:
ERA’s: 1.36, 1.74. 1.53, 3.07 (career high), 2.25.
WHIP: 0.76, 0.87, 0.80. 0.97, 0.82
Or how about this…
John Maine had a 10.93 K/9 in AA. That is BETTER than Mike Pelfrey’s AA numbers.
John Maine had a K/9 of 18.29 in A Ball. Those are essentially Henry Owens numbers.
Look, I’m not saying the guy is as good as Pelfrey. He only tops out at 94, not 98. But he is a hard-throwing young pitcher with impeccable credentials. To lump him in with Lima, or to argue he has no talent is just absurd…
For sh1ts and giggles.
Or because they are worried that since it is a Friday night, traffic is going to be bad with all of the people heading out to the Hamptons, so they decided to do their part to limit traffice by pitching Lima, thereby reducing attendance. Never say the Mets aren’t interested in the good of the community.
As for setting a tone, I do not think this team would suddenly roll over and play dead by getting blown out in game 1. They certainly didn’t against the Pirates.
Walt,
THANK YOU! Seriously, people have to lay off Maine. He just needs to build up some more arm strength and he many be better than a 4 or 5 starter. Who wouldn’t take 6 innings of 7K, 3 run pitching? It is a heck of a lot better than Lima could do. He could possibly be better than Trachsel. He just needs some more arm strength and endurance. I was impressed with his stuff the other day. I think he will be a pretty damn good 4 or 5 for the rest of the season.
Rick Crane
Do you really want Mike Pelfrey’s first assignment at the ML level to be go beat Dontrelle Willis (who happens to own the mets)?
I mean lets try and ease the kid in if we can. Holding him over till saturday does that.
Why you guy all down on me! I can still pitch! Beside, I have new dye job for my hair. Tonight, I be redhead like Rusty Staub!! Omar, said to me, you get your wife to sing national anthem, and then I get you to pitch. Sweet deal!! I take her to Victoria’s Secret at Queens Center Mall this afternoon, and she all ready. Anyway, she probably spend more time on field singing Star Spangled Banner, than I spend from pitching mound!! I already tell my infielders to make sure they have their “cups” on, because i expect the Marlin’s to be hitting rockets!!
Yes and no, the Mets are affiliated with the Norfolk Tides, who are in the International League, which is classified as AAA, so I guess you could say that technically the Tides are a AAA team.
However, the guy who just recently bought the Tides, is apparently the fan of some other team and he wants to switch affiliations so Omar stuck Norfolk with a bunch of AAAA bums and failed MLBers (a few quasi-prospects like Keppinger and Diaz and Hernandez and Ring- but probably only because sending them down to AA would seem like too much of a demotion to those guys) and Norfolk is now 35-52 or something…
:-) I exagerrate, there are prospects- like Lastings and MacLane, but Omar traded off so many of the Mets higher level prospects that really both Norfolk and Binghamton (40-44) are carrying a bit more in the way of failed prospects/retreads/roster filler than you’d like to see…
Now that was some funny s**t Mr. Lima.
Saying your wife would be on the field longer than you is classic.
This is assuming Walts stats are right…
Great Post.
I don’t think Maine is going to be optioned. I think he is in the rotation untill he blows up Soler style.
Considering it’s Lima, why not pitch him until his arm falls off no matter what the score? If the Marlins score 10 in the first inning, save the bullpen and keep using Lima until they mercy rule or use Marrero and let him become one of those guys who plays EVERY position in one game!
I know its been said already, but why do you hate Maine so much? It makes no sense! He has comparable stats to Soler who you’ve said is a starter of the future…Maine is more than a year YOUNGER! There is no reason he couldn’t be a #3 starter and at least a 4 or 5…what is your logic here aside from “he hasn’t shown anything” in his 50+ innings of work?
I’m of the thought that Owens should be in the minors as a “secret weapon” type for the end of the year. Apparently his delivery is a Willie favorite, “funky”. If that’s the case, I like the idea of waiting until later and using him similarly to what the Angels did with K-Rod in 2002…
I tend to agree with Bryan on leaving Owens down in the minors unless:
1) he takes some innings off of Heilman/Sanchez/Wagner in the coming months and allows them to rest and be more effective when they pitch.
2) takes Heilman’s place and allows the mets to start the stretching him out and bring aaron home to the rotation.
If his staying accomplishes either one of those two, then I’m all for it.
All ! know is Willie better have a extremely short leash for Lima and Oliver has to be ready at all times. If not ill be the guy running onto the field and choking Lima
I think if Owens dominates, he should stay, period.
Did Joe Mauer make the AL all-star team?
wow if he didnt.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/14953183.htm
And if other teams start to figure him out and hit him say late august/september, it would’ve been the wrong move.
Walt,
Still a great post because I had no idea how good he’d been, but you threw out all of his AAA stats, which aren’t nearly as impressive, and represent the majority of his innings. The k/9 drops to 8, the WHIP up to 1.50, the ERA to 3.40. Decent but not great, and I don’t think you can make the case that he was rushed to AAA.
I agree with your Maine point (har har), but those numbers you posted make him look like something special, when really he’s just possibly nice.
Sorry I posed this link with no descrip…
this miami herald writer basically says NY stuffed the ballot box and named LoDuca and even had the audacity to mention Reyes….i think i’m writing him an email…I recommend you all do the same.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/14953183.htm
LOL. Go for it, man. I’ll be the guy cheering you on from my couch. With a beer in my hand. And maybe some of Dpty’s last name too.
“Maybe.” Yeah, right.
Dpty-
If Mauer didn’t make the all star team, that’s completely insane!!! Like we get catchers hitting .385+ at the breal pretty often.
calling up lima to me is stupid beyond words, and we would all much rather have a slightly-injured soler up there. since they’re starting lima against willis, why not just leave lima in for like 6-7 innings no matter how bad he is? if the only purpose of throwing lima is to eat innings, then why even make an attempt at winning the game and just throw him until his arm falls off? the way willis has pitched the last month and a half, he’s not giving up more than 3 runs. so why not save oliver and just throw lima for a while no matter how bad he looks?
this is gonna be ugly tonight. i say take the 15-3 loss and move on. throw eli marrero in relief maybe, i’d call that “eating innings.”
Funny Tim in LA…Maine point. ::chuckles nerdy laugh::
AJ-
Smart thinking, as usual. I agree. I think the Mets will put up some runs against Willis, by the way. But either way, leave Lima Time! out there for 175 pitches and as many runs as he can yield.
If we’re lucky, his arm’ll fall off.
Why does anyone even reply to Mike C’s ravings? Why does everyone feel compelled to defend Maine to him. If he feels that way, fine. The rest of us know better.
And then let Lima pitch with his other arm!!!!
Joe Mauer was named to the AL team as a reserve.
Of course Mauer made the all-star team - so did every other player mentioned in the article. I don’t really understnad the point of the article. It says the fans overlooked Nomar and Sanchez, but then points out that the guys voted in ahead of them are having better years than they are - so doesn’t that mean the fans didn’t overlook them, they just didn’t deserve to start?
Maurer deserved it.
Well, don’t forget, I’ll be cheering you on from the Mezz tonight. Maybe I’ll jump from the Mezz so I can distract security from noticing you. Make sure you wear some latex gloves, you don’t whatever disease Lima might wind up giving you if you touch him.
Good stuff FMF. Funny.
That article wasn’t about who made the AllStar team… it was about who was voted as starters. For instance, he complains about Nomar not making the starting lineup….
Tim,
Your point is valid. I left out 2005 and used Maine’s stats from 2002-04 because it seems clear than everyone already knew ‘05 was a washout year for Maine - a losing record in AAA followed by a rough 8 starts when he was called up. I thought it was important to remind some people of just how dominant he had been before that. In all the talk about how the Mets just wanted to get rid of Anna Benson, people lost sight of the fact that the Mets also traded for one of the O’s top pitching prospects.
Look, I’m not running for president of the John Maine fan club. He has some obvious weaknesses - he needs to be able to throw his breaking ball consistently for a strike, and he needs to shorten up his delivery from the stretch or teams are going to run wild on him.
Do I think he’s a future ace? No, but he could be a solid #4 or 5. Do I think he’ll ever have a 10 K/9 in the big leagues? No, but he could strike out 150 a season. And I think it’s crazy to write him off as some AAAA player after just 13 big league appearances.
Come on 420. Have people figured out K-Rod? Have people figured out Wagner? If he’s special, he won’t be figured out.
True, Lunkwill Fook, but then he says this…
How do you advocate for these guys and say the fans are voting on “popularity,” which is certainly true in some cases, and then say they shouldn’t be starting because the guys voted in ARE having better seasons? He completely refuted his own argument!
I was thinking you left them out because people are thinking Pelfrey is the next coming of Jesus and Maine had equally as good stats when he was at the same level…
Not to mention, that K-Rod thing worked out pretty neatly for Anaheim, Los Angeles, whatever… but I would rather see Owens in some meaningful situations before the playoffs begin. You know how Willie is, Owens will have to pitch a bunch of innings to prove himself before Willie will ever use him in a high-leverage situation.
I meant to add that the real problem isn’t fan voting, but the fact that each team is required to have a representative. That’s just silly!
dpty, sadly, it’s true about the disease stuff.
I know FMF—sad, but funny. i wonder if his wife has it too.
Danny—You are probly right bro’ and I probly shouldnt have written what I did. What worries me about Owens and what makes him different that KRod and Wagner is that Owens has a funky delivery. Will ppl adjust to his delivery over time and start hitting him?
The John Maine fan club that may have to be started especially if he performs well and gets sent down instead of Lima.
Aight boys, I’m off to Shea.
I won my tickets tonight in some silent auction and they actually included a DiamondClub Dinner or something. I’ve never been in there, so I’m a little excited.
I’m more excited about dinner than about seeing LimaTime Pitch.
I’m down Field Level, Section 243C (i believe). Anyone out there tonite welcome to hunt me down.
Look for the ridiculously good looking (ha!) guy in khakis and a blue polo shirt.
“You know how Willie is, Owens will have to pitch a bunch of innings to prove himself before Willie will ever use him in a high-leverage situation”
Exactly, id be very surprised if Willie gives him the time of day. If i were a young player who is being burried by Willie, id ask Valentin to put some good words in with Willie during pillow talk.
I agree with Willie on that one.
So do I. I am just pointing out that if we want Owens to potentially become an important part of a postseason run, he is going to have to put some innings in to position himself to do so.
Has anyone here seen Owens pitch? I haven’t found consistent scouting reports on his secondary pitches — slider? changeup? splitter? which is it?
Re: Maine… ultimately, why would you be starting a 5.50 pitcher if you have any other options? And yes, yes, he’s young by the calendar, I understand that… but to try and pretend he has the upside of Pelfrey or even Soler is kinda laughable.
It’s not even that he goes out one time and throws a great game and goes out a second time and throws awfully, such as Soler became with his supposed injury… he just blows up every time.
He’s proven nothing, I would’ve felt more confident in throwing away a B-level prospect for a flier on Jeff Weaver over promoting Maine… or dumping Floyd off on the Angels of ShermanOaks-Pasadena-BellGardens-Compton for that flier, even better.
If you’re gonna be throwing up… oh… anybody… why not give Oliver a shot at stretching out? He’ll have the All-Star Break to recover. Why not call up Pelfrey earlier, instead of just giving up a game by starting Maine at all?
There’s no excuse for Lima at all, there’s no excuse for Maine unless Lima’s seriously your only other option. At the point where you’re considering getting those guys up, just call somebody up or… at worst, trade spare parts for spare parts with somebody else and pray for rain.
Soler pitching slightly hurt is a better choice than either of those options.
Stringing four relievers together for a game is a better choice than either of those options, especially with the break coming up to rest them.
And, maybe not in the case of Maine, but flat-out telling Endy Chavez “You’re a pitcher today” and sending him out there is better than sending Lima out there.
Oliver Career ERA: 4.99…
Soler pitching slightly hurt led to less than 2 innings and 8 runs last time. How is that better than Maine’s last start of 4 2/3 with 3 runs? Not to mention the fact that he was great for the first 4 innings and tired in the fifth. Your obsessive love of Soler and hatred of Maine makes no sense.
Chris, I never believe Willie either. The trouble is that when he says something like that (”can’t give you multiple innings” “is a 2-hole hitter” “is better for us in the bullpen”) WILLIE believes them, and then it’s nearly impossible to get him to believe anything else.
Here is the pitching stats from maine’s 2 starts.
DOES YOUR SMALL ONE TRACK MIND SEE THE KIND OF PITCHING THAT THE METS FACED BOTH THOSE GAMES.AS I’VE SAID BEFORE IF HE HAD BETTER RUN SUPPORT HE COULD BE EASILY 1-1
I saw Owens pitch quite a bit in Binghamton. The guy throws gas. He needs to take more speed off of his changeup to make his Fastball even more effective. You all saw it last night. He looked amp’d up as his offspeed pitch was waaay to fast and consistently outside - which wasn’t a bad thing as it can be tagged if it was over the plate. Hopefully he’s taken a breath now and will settle into pitching as good as did in Binghamton.
About Maine … I’m with Mike C. on this one. Maine has made 11 career ML starts and only 1 has been quality. That’s a really poor record, rookie or no rookie. Even Heilman in his rookie year prior to his fix had 4 quality starts out of 13.
Regarding Maine’s minor league stats that Walt brought up, why did he leave out Maine’s 2004 AAA numbers which are pretty pedestrian? He had a 3.91 ERA with a 1.46 WHIP and a 7.90 K/9. He pitched 119 innings which is significantly more than the small sample sizes at the lower levels in the minors he had (just 28 IP in AA), hence they are probably more representative of his potential. Also, Maine put up a bad 4.56 ERA in 128 innings in AAA during 2005. His minor league numbers at AA and above are really not very good.
I don’t know if Maine can ever be a quality starter, but so far it doesn’t appear he has much potential for that. Part of the problem is his inability to go late into games, which might make him better suited to the bullpen.
As for Heilman, I believe he’s lost a lot of his motivation. When that happens, it’s hard to get it back unless the reason for losing it is rectified. It’s not anything he’s doing on purpose. Athletes need motivation to perform, whether it’s money, winning a title, attaining life goals, or feeling they’re being used to their full potential. In at least 3 out of those 4 areas, Heilman believes he’s been put on the wrong track. The Mets should either put him back in the rotation (and if Owens steps up maybe they can afford to do it now), or trade him in the offseason. He will never succeed as a reliever again the way he did late last season because the desire just isn’t there.
Why not put Maine in the bullpen and Heilman back in the rotation? Seems like an ideal solution to me.