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December 12, 2005
Mets Payroll
A lot of you have been asking about the Mets’ payroll situation recently, what with all of the recent signings, trades and other player acquisitions. I’m happy to say that thanks to a lot of work and a lot of help from a lot of folks, I present to you the MetsGeek Payroll Spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is broken down into player categories: * Starting position players “Everything else” includes players on the 40-man roster who are not on the active roster, free agents who have yet to sign, minor leaguers with Major League contracts and retired players still collecting a paycheck from Mr. Wilpon. 2005 figures for all players are included for historical reference. There are bound to be errors and omissions, so if you have payroll information that we are missing or have bungled, please let me know so that it can be corrected. When submitting information be sure to include a reliable source for your claims (like a URL), otherwise there is no reason to believe tht your information is better than ours. The spreadsheet can be accessed any time by using the link under “Features” on the left sidebar. Special thanks to the following people: Wally Gobetz from the Mets Baseball Talk ListServ Eric Simon has far too much time on his hands. He sleeps upside-down, keeps people as pets, and can be found on the internets at Amazin' Avenue or bothered directly at eric@metsgeek.com. 73 Responses to “Mets Payroll”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. The Helmet »» |
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Now I know how much we will still have to pay Willie when he is terminated.
J/K
Wow… 2008 contracts:
Pedro - 11.5M
Beltran - 10M
Delgado - 16M
Wagner - 10.5M
Total Commitment for 2008: 60.3M
I suppose that by then, things are going to be really great, or really 2002 again. Cuz honestly, at least one of those guys will suck by then.
Hey Brian and don’t forget Wright and Reyes who both will be Arb eligible, that could be another 10-15 mil.
Yeah, but at least they won’t be old baggage. All I can say is I hope we’re the two time defending champs by then…
The Mets have an agreement not to offer Beltran arbitration after the contract is up? Why would they agree to something like that? I doubt it was a deal breaker.
YAY! We’re still paying Mo Vaughn and Art Howe. Let’s go Mets!
thats 48 million. i dont no whree u got 60 from
Dont you think its kinda crazy; The GM makes more than the manager. It’s certainly very rare.
And thats without the money that we are going to be paying bobby bo in 4 yrs until he turns 72.
At least we arent paying 10 to 12 ex-players like the DBacks do. :)But they did win the series with those guys
Shouldn’t the money (wasn’t it $8m?) we got from the Marlins in the Delgado deal be deducted from his salaries?
no, that’s income not expense and, i assume, a topic for a future discussion. there’s no rule to state that money be spent reducing that particular player’s salary.
Why include wagner and delgado under 2005 salary when they werent on our team in 2005?
Why is Delgado’s option listed as if it vested? I’m not being critical, just curious.
Or by 2008, 10.5M will just be an “average” MLB salary for a quality player :)
These salaries charts are somewhat useful, but they don’t account for what the Mets will be taking in. Personally, I never count other people’s money.
I think too much attention is paid to the money these guys make. For one, its none of our business what another business wants to pay its employees. Why do we care so much? As long as the team has good players, makes good moves and puts a competitive team on the field. I don;t care how much money it costs. I know I’ll comments back like - “well it affects the price of a ticket and so on” So do all kinds of other things, from health insurance, retirement benfits and the price of gasoline.To me it takes away from the fun of being a fan. Sports should be about getting away from the thoughts of money. Don;t all of us worry too much about it in our personal lives? None of us really have an inside understanding to the finances of any of any of these teams. If you think you do, you’re very mistaken. They don;t open their books for anyone. So why should we pay so much atention to this? I’d rather spend time talking about stats, young players etc.
Yes. I still have to apply those amounts, and they would be reflected in the “Cash In/Out” row at the bottom of the spreadsheet.
Again, it’s just for historical reference of what a player made last year. It doesn’t represent what the Mets were responsible for, just a basis for comparison to the current salary.
Delgado has a $12M 2009 team option, but the option vests at $16M if he accumulates 30 points in the first four years. He would get 10 points for winning the NL MVP award and nine for finishing second and so on under a formula that gives him one point for finishing 10th. He would get 20 points if he’s the World Series MVP and 10 if he’s the league championship series MVP.
Delgado finished 6th in the 2005 MVP voting, good for 5 points. He would have to accumulate 25 points over the next three seasons for the 2009 option to vest. Otherwise the Mets could pick it up at $12M or buy it out at $4M.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4bj8a/metspayroll.htm
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/
Boras does that with a lot of his clients. I guess it’s his way of telling teams that they’re going to have to pony up big time to keep free agents, because it forces them to sign them or lose them so much earlier. I’m suprised it doesn’t happen more often, but I wouldn’t be suprised if it starts too real soon..
Eric,
You shouldn’t include Wagner’s 2005 salary in the spreadsheet. Also, it would be helpful to compare 2005 to 2006 if you included those guys who were on the team in 2005 to be in the top sections, so we could really compare 2005 to 2006 by category.
I explained above that 2005 salaries are for historical reference. Ignore them if you have no use for them.
The spreadsheet is already enormous; adding in players who are no longer on the team would only make it larger and more difficult to read. I think the cons outweigh the pros in this case.
Why the hell are we paying Mo Vaughns salary till 2008. Doesnt medical insurance cover natural disasters like this??
Outstanding work, Eric, extremely useful in assessing the team’s ability to absorb more payroll (and the wisdom thereof).
Parenthetically, this document reminds us that signing Art Howe ranks among the worst decisions the team has ever made–if we needed reminding…
Eric, I think you misunderstood my question. I understand how it breaks down — $4m buyout, $12 option if it doesn’t vest; $16m if it does. What I’m asking is why you are including it as $16m as opposed to $4m, given that only $4m has thus far been earned.
Also, while I’m at it:
2) Does Delgado’s salary include the tax escalators?
3) How did you calculate “benefits”?
4) If Mo is insured, is that reflected in Cash In?
This is truly excellent work.
I’m not. Delgado’s 2009 salary isn’t on the spreadsheet at all. He makes the same $16M in 2008, so that may be what you’re looking at. The spreadsheet should probably indicate $4M for 2009 since that much is guaranteed.
No. It should, but I haven’t quite figured out how to express them and whether they impact the cap value of the contract.
Per Dugout Dollars:
As per the Basic Agreement, player benefits are to be included in the calculation of a team’s payroll for luxury tax purposes. This includes payments made to the MLB Benefit Plan, worker’s compensation premiums, social security taxes, spring training and all-star game allowances, moving and traveling expenses, contributions to the post-season pool, contributions to the college scholarship plan, and player medical costs. Last year this was calculated at $7,552,271 per team. It can increase by up to 10% per year, but it can never increase by more than the total combined increase in salaries paid to players from year to year.
It’s a guestimation at $7.55 until I know the actual 2005 benefits numbers (if anyone has them please let me know).
No. In reality it could be included, but I would also have to include any insurance reimbursements the Mets receive for other players who miss time due to injury. Most of this information isn’t readily available, so for the sake of symmetry insurance payouts are omitted.
This is very impressive.
I have a tough time figuring out contracts and arbitration.
What exactly happens with Wright and Reyes at the end of 2006….
there’s no chance we will not be able to sign them for 2007?
Here’s how it works:
After a player reaches a certain amount of Major League service time — approximately 3 years, but some 2+ year players qualify as well — they are eligibile for arbitration. Teams can do one of three things:
1) Fail to offer the player a contract (”non-tender” the player), making him a free agent.
2) Sign the player to a mutually agreed-upon contract.
3) Go to arbitration.
If they go the third route, both the player and team submit a proposed salary to a panel of three arbitrators, one selected by the player, one by the team, and one selected mutually. Each side gets a chance to demonstrate why the player should be paid what they requested. There are certain parameters as to what can and cannot be used as evidence of the player’s worth; for example, the team cannot cite a player’s DUI. Most typically, each side uses similar, recent contracts to show how the player in question is valued across the league. Also, the panel tends to focus on the past, recent results of the player.
The player is _not_ eligible for free agency, nor can he decline arbitration (absent agreeing to a contract with the team). This process lasts for years four through seven, inclusive, of the player’s Major League career. After year seven, the player can file for free agency, absent a contract to the contrary.
That said, I think, but am not sure, that Reyes and Wright are not free agency eligible until 2009 and 2010, respectively.
It’s actually years four through six, a total of three seasons. In year seven the player would be eligible for free agency provided, as you mentioned, he isn’t under contract for that year (or subsequent years).
Yeah, as Eric said, it’s six. I keep getting confused because it is effectively seven seasons due to September call-ups — those (typically) aren’t enough to affect the timetable.
The big exception — and it can be a REALLY big exception — to the whole arb calendar is that a player who has only two+ years of ML service (but less than 3 years) and is in the top 17% of those in that category is also arb eligible. I assume that is why Jae So is listed as possibly arb elig for ‘07?
Thanks for the info DNL and Eric
it’s a nice comfort that Reyes and Wright are on board for a few more seasons.
I don’t think we have to worry about wright and reyes being on the mets for years to come. certainly through ‘09 and 10. they’ll start costing a pretty penny next year and the year after though. soriano made like 9 or 10 mil this year due to his arbitration, right? david would probably get more money because he’s the rbi guy of the two. but they better be mets for their career. a nice #7 and #5 retired next to each other, like MJ and pippen now are.
71: I don’t really see the value in zambrano as a reliever. i guess he can warm up fast, but if he doesn’t know where his fastball is going, then why do we want him coming in with men on base? is peterson going to be able to “fix” him ever?
So crazy how we traded kazmir for him; it really just boggles my mind every time it occurs to me.
Eric -
Thanks for the time and energy in putting together this great reference piece. Two questions/issues:
1. How do you treat the amatuer signings for cash flow purposes?
I see you’ve got Phil Humber included probably because he got an MLB contract. What about guys that get large signing bonuses but not an MLB contract like the international talent - I see you did not include Deolis Guerra or Jesus Martinez (was all of their money paid in 05?). Would the millions used for these signings factor into the organization’s cash flow and decision making on spending?
2. Can you estimate likely 2006 contracts not currently accounted for?
The two big money contracts that I can think of are V. Zambrano and M. Pelfrey. Zambrano is on the 25 man roster but you did not estimate his 2006 salary (maybe use his 2005 as a plug for the moment). Given past Met administrative behavior Pelfrey is a likely signing - he’s technically part of the organization until they renounce his rights. Maybe include Humber’s deal as a plug until Pelfrey is officially signed.
Finally - I’m sure you have better info - but I thought Glavine’s option value in 2006 increased with his IP - according to Cot’s he was to get $10.5mm (guaranteed) in 2006 if he pitched more than 200 innings in 2005 or 600 IP from 2003-05 (both of which he did).
I could swear they are paying Bobby Bo until 2025 or something crazy like that.
i kno this is off topic but
the mets are not that MUCH better than the braves, idk why everyone is wiping the braves out of the nl east
their infield is basically a wash with ours
delgado
kaz/anderson
reyes
wright
VS
laroche/whoever else
giles
edgar
chipper
well delgado wins, giles wins big time, almost a wash but im basicng this on reyes potential…even ill say , and wright and chipper…a wash
outfield
floyd, belt, diaz/nady
franc floyd is a wash…floyd prob is a lil better
beltran jones..even, jones lil upperhand
kelly johnson/orr..who ever verse diaz…i think diaz is better but basically a wash…
lo duca and mccann…lil uppherand to lo duca
Excellent! I didn’t like any of the trade matchups with Texas and Benson. Hopefully this will keep Omar focused on the Royals’ pen.
To state the obvious, that is A LOT of money. More money than an entire 3rd World country has! These guys don’t deserve this money. It’s our scientists, doctors and mathemiticians that should be getting these big paychecks.
On a side note: These bonuses and options are pretty complicated.
Metsblog reported that Javy Vasquez was almost traded last night …
to either the Nats or the Mets…
Texas still needs more starting pitching. Beside Loe and young, they really didnt have much else before this trade for starting pitching. They need at least one more quality starter
Reyes played 69 games in 2003. if you count all his time, he just finished his third year, which makes him arbitration eligible. i guess they aren’t counting all the time though because i definitely haven’t heard anything about him and arbitration. Do they count games played or ab’s or something?
I just read the article from azcentral.com. The guy said that Vazquez was almost traded last night and a deal could happen today. He did not mention a team or teams that were involved last night. Later on in his article, he talks about the mets and Nats as being one of four teams that are still in the mix for Vazquez.
Yeah, and I almost ate chicken last night.
chris: it’s a good winter to be in AZ. at least you can get us the scoop on javy being in that heat.
Anyone think we could trade Benson for Wilkerson and then trade Wilkerson and Trachsel to Arizona for Vazquez?
I hope something is done between now and next week cause I’m leaving for Hell on Earth, Atlanta Braves country. The good thing is I’ll be able to see the Mets 9 times at turner field. The bad news, it’s turner field!
No because washington already proposed a wilkson trade before he was actually traded and Az. didt think Wilkerson was an upgrade over green in Center. If we traded for Wilkerson, I would want to keep him. No doubt about that.
Thanks for setting this up, Eric. Very impressive.
Chris what pact did you make with Lucifer that sent a Met fan to Diamondback and now Braves country?
I’m really not happy with these Vazquez rumors. It’s clear that Benson+Bannister isn’t enough. The only thing we have of value is Lastings Milledge, and there’s no way he should be traded for a guy whose ERA has been 4.91 and 4.42 the past 2 years.
I came to dback country before the dbacks existed because I was a kid and my parents wanted to leave jersey. 3 great met memories of mine happened at bank one or in Arizona. The first game of the 99 division series with Alfonso’s grand slam. Talking Mets with then bullpen coach, Rick Waits (friend of a friend) while I had an important client waiting for me in the next room. And of course, the 4 game series sweep this yr at the BOB.
I actually want to go to georgia. My sister needs backup in her small little town that celebrates Braves day every oct. I’m serious, my sister got an earful from parents at the school she teaches at for wearing a Mets cap on Braves day.
Haha Chris nice, make sure you wear a mets jersey that day, heck let everyone know that date because even though I wont be in Georgia, Ill make sure I wear a mets jersey on that day. Any way want to ask you if you heard who the teams are that are trying to get Vazquez besides the Mets and Nationals. Did any of the other papers report Vazquez could have been traded last night also or was it just that one paper.
Wow — Chris, mad props to your sister. Is she single?
Married with children. SHes not a mets fan though. Actually roots for the red sox. just hates the braves. Her husband hates them too. A bunch of northerns in a small southern town.
Only the arizona republic reported it but their are usually dead on compared to the other 2 major arizona or phoenix area papers, the daily star(Tucson) and the east valley tribune (Mesa/Tempe). Talk radio just finished up about who they suspect being the other 2 teams. They have really no idea. They were naming teams on the no trade list. I think Arizona really only has the two options, the Nats or the Mets. A third team would have to come in most likely for either team to meet Arizona’s asking price. The best possible proposal they got was blocked by Vazquez to det. They were willing to trade two top prospects for Vazquez and take the entire salary the next two yrs. The dbacks also plan to keep the money they got in the johnson trade that is suppose to go to paying javys contract
Thats good to know that the paper reporting the trade almost happen is the best of the bunch there. The Dbacks look like they are trying to get a ransom here, they wont pay any of the salary, and are going to keep the extra 3 million they got from the yankees. They should just take whatever the mets offer since they are going to take all the money and none of the money from the yanks. You think maybe a 3 way with the cubs could be worked out, I saw the Dbacks like Patterson but I dont know what the mets would have to include for Patterson to get to the dbacks.
Don’t forget we will be paying Bret Saberhagen for many years to come along with Bobby Bonilla. I still will never figure out why Phillips did that. Just pay the fine and forget, not drag a reminder for eternity!
Hey could anyone gather a link or a list of guys who could be non-tendered this off season, could be some guys that could help us out.
Are we still paying Vince Coleman, too? Yikes!!! LOL
Check this out:
Sorry, the link didn’t work out. Let me try this again:
2006-7 Potential Free Agents
I always check Newsday (Heyman) because they always seem to scoop everyone else on confirming Met trades. They had Alomar first and this year they had Delgado before anyone else. I caught a little bit of the Yankee Hot Stove on YES the other night. They had Heyman on and also Jack Curry from the NYTimes (two great writers IMHO). It seemed like everytime Heyman mentioned the Mets, the host changed the subject! LOL, the Yankees have this need to control EVERYTHING!
If Arizona acquires another lh bat, they will have one of the most left sided skewed batting order in baseball. They already have Green, Gonzo, Counsell and Tracy along with Cintron, Clark and estrada who are all switch hitters. I feel sorry for whoever signs Braden Looper when they play the dbacks
The Times and Newsday are the two papaers I read to find out about the Mets thinking. They seem to be a little better than the rest imho. Actually, which is sad, the arizona papers get beat to the punch on rumors about their own team by a reporter from the Rocky Mountain news in Denver. The Daily star here went ahead and had this guy write a weekly column on sundays exclusive to the star.
A little of subj but has anyone heard any updates about the new stadium. I read the story about the football stadium in jersey and I started thinking about the park in Queens
Same here….the NY Post and NY Daily News are always heavily slanted towards the Skankees - esp. the News whose sports editor usually poses in his Skankee jersey around playoff time to make bets with other editors. Lupica is the only one who ever gives the Mets a fair shake at the News. And if I read Bill Madden write how noisy and bad Shea is one more time….
My cousins (big eagles fans) use to say about the vet in philly “we know the vet’s a dump but it’s are dump” Every year I make my annual pilgrimage to Shea. Compared to every stadium (except the Vet) i’ve been to, it is a dump but it is our dump and when the new stadium is built, it will be sad to see shea go.
it will be sad to see shea go, but it is a huge dump. there better not be any frickin’ water slides at this new park though.
Ditto, lots of good (and a few bad) memories in that place.
The best I know is that the new stadium will open for the 2009 season. The retractable dome and “sliding grass field” are out of the plan now. Apparently, Wilpon still wants that retro Ebbets Field facade. It’s subject to change, but they say it’ll seat about 40,000. I’ll have to ask my bro-in-law to get more info, he’s a contractor and always gets the scoop from the guys in Queens.
I’ll be happy just to have some working bathrooms!!!
I also hope they leave some of the new stadium open-ended. I like the fact that in Shea you can see outside the park (and into it as you approach) as opposed to Giant and Yankee Stadium which both feel very closed-in to me.
Wow - amazing job putting this together.
Does anyone feel totally unconcerned with payroll? I mean, this is baseball - and after this year, we’ll have our own cable network - an unlimted source of funds. Literally, the sky is the limit in terms of what salary a guy gets. Once you have an unlimited budget it becomes meaningless what you pay anyone. Give Franco, Lo Docu, Wagner, Pedro huge deals - this is now way effects the Mets ability to sign other players to other large contracts.
I’m not saying money buys championships, as our friends in the other borough have shown. I’m just saying that there’s no set sum of money that needs to be allocated across a set of players - and therefore no need to worry about what contracts anyone gets.
My observations:
1. Trachsel at $2.5 million is the bargain of the year, let’s not be in such a hurry to get rid of him.
2. Glavine at $8.5 makes me throw up in my mouth, don’t understand why he gets such a free ride. Ever since they started using Questek (?) to monitor umpire’s strike zones he has been useless. No longer do he and Maddox get an extra 2 inches inside and outside like they used to based on their reputations. I absolutely hate the friggin guy, can you tell?
3. It is absolutely gigantic that the Mets have been able to develop 2 every day players from the minors (3 if you include Diaz) plus a pitcher (Seo). Having 3-4 “minimum” salary guys allows you to spend $60 on just 4 other players and avoid being the Yankees or Red Sox up near/over the luxury tax. Also allows freedom to make mid-season moves taking on payroll to “go for it”.
Player salaries are important, no team can afford to be fiscally reckless forever.
4. Mo Vaughn might be the most overpaid player in the history of sports. Couple of NBA players might challenge him but it would be close. Mo Vaughn and Pervis Ellison, tied at the top.
I think an important thing to realize is a stain on that spreadsheet…Ishii’s $2+M…was likely fully paid up by Trachsel’s insurance when he went down. That was a no-cost signing for us, and about as good as Omar could do at the time since he had little faith in Seo/Heilman at that time (nor did any of us).
When Seo/Heilman did well early on, the mistake was sticking with Ishii so long, because the insurance means there’s little real need to get value for the money paid to Ishii. Wilpon would understand this and none of the other fans would care. The only other motivation would be Jeffie-poo’s Japan marketing project, which is dubious.
[...] A couple of months ago, after countless requests to do so, we finally introduced the MetsGeek Payroll Spreadsheet, our take on the Mets’ payroll situation. With the abundance of player movement in today’s MLB it’s nice to be able to see everything at once in an organized and meaningful way. [...]
It’s fishing season in the Bronx!