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November 19, 2005
  
The David Sloane Files

We can all agree on a couple of things with regard to Carlos Delgado’s agent David Sloane. One, he can get his client a good contract (four years and $52 million); and two, well, he’s not exactly personable.

And that’s coming back to bite his client in the ass.

Sloane was more than vocal about the New York Mets last offseason, admitting that he’d played them to increase the value of Delgado when Carlos had no interest, none at all, in suiting up at Shea Stadium. The Mets were willing to offer a four year deal with a no-trade clause, a contract that, according to experts, came out worth slightly more money overall than the Marlins’ offer.

“From day one, we have told everyone that Carlos would make his choice based on where he felt he had the best chance to win a World Series,” wrote his agent, David Sloane, in an e-mail. “I’m proud to say that is exactly why he made the choice he made.”

The outcome of the 2005 season speaks for itself. The Mets won 83 games and the Marlins won… 83 games. The Marlins did it with a slugging first-baseman named Delgado, the Mets did it with… Doug Mientkiewicz.

Replace Mientkiewicz with Delgado and you have an additional seven wins judging by BP’s VORP; an additional six judging by their WARP metric. Either way, 83 wins plus either six or seven additional wins puts us right up there contending with Atlanta’s season-ending total of 90 wins.

Who wants to play for a contender now?

The timeline of events that led to Delgado signing with Florida was intriguing and annoying, coming in the wake of our triumphs signing big-ticket free agents Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran.

Sloane’s intent for Delgado was clear from the beginning: to get Carlos a four-year contract with a fifth-year vesting option which would allow him to play first-base on a daily basis. Texas showed initial interest toward the slugger but was eliminated from the running early in a PR nightmare.

After months of trying to make Carlos Delgado fit into their payroll and their lineup, the Rangers decided Sunday things were simply too complicated and ended their pursuit of the free agent.

“We gave it our best shot,” Rangers owner Tom Hicks said. “We’re moving on. They are still continuing to talk to other clubs. We clarified on Sunday what his role would be here. We already have a first baseman who is a part of the core of our team. The position we were interviewing for was DH.”

“If we had 25 conversations with them, the first 24 acknowledged Carlos was still a first baseman,” Sloane said. “We understood … he’d DH more than he has, but we made it clear from the first minute that he positively, unequivocally, absolutely had no interest in being a full-time DH.”

That same weekend, the Mets were “eliminated” from negotiations after an imposed deadline request of Sunday, 11pm for an answer on the Mets’ contract offer was allowed to pass.

“Jeff (Wilpon) and I spoke to Mr. Sloane tonight and expressed our desire to get a resolution by tonight,” Mets GM Omar Minaya said in a statement issued at 12:30 a.m. “He said he would convey our thought to Carlos and get back to us after speaking to him. We have yet to receive that phone call.

“He has not yet told us we’re out of it.”

Delgado’s agent had a different idea of the intent of the request, however.

“I’m not stupid enough to believe they were serious,” Sloane says, still angry. “I knew what they were trying to do, which is why I told Carlos that when you’re confronted by a bully, you hit him in the mouth.” Sloane delivered his punch on ESPN, which suddenly ran a report saying the Mets had withdrawn from the Delgado sweepstakes. At midnight Sunday, a stunned Jeff Wilpon, watching TV at home, called Minaya, who spent Monday re-entering the hunt.

The Mets and Marlins both still had four year, $52 million offers on the table at this point, New York’s worth more overall and with much larger performance bonuses.

For instance, were Delgado to win the MVP award with Florida, his bonus would be $100,000. With the Mets, he’d receive a $500,000 bonus for each MVP award won. That’s a possible $1.5 million overall bonus compared to Florida’s $300,000 offer.

And that’s not even getting into the full no-trade clause offered by Minaya and the Mets, something that Sloane and Delgado are sincerely paying for now with their longing to stay in Miami.

Two days after New York’s elimination from negotiations and just one day after their reinstatement, Delgado signed with the Marlins. But Sloane’s diatribes against New York didn’t end.

Several days after the contract signing it was revealed that Al Leiter, who had left the Mets and signed a one-year, $8 million deal with Florida, had told Delgado the negatives about working in the big city. Who leaked that news to the press? David Sloane via e-mail – his preferred method of communication – of course.

Leiter was the right choice to be invited. He knew Delgado as a young pup with the Jays during the early 1990s. He had just left the Mets.

“Who better to discourage him from going to New York?” Leiter asks. “In New York you have seven or eight competing papers, TV networks and their affiliates and peripheral periodicals. It’s fine when you are dealing and kicking butt.”

The reality is, Leiter tells Delgado, that doesn’t happen.

“It just chip, chip, chip, chips away at your resolve, cracking away your protective toughness,” Leiter says. “Every bad game it’s like ‘are you worried? … the manager says this … are you worried?’ You begin to doubt yourself. That’s why slumps in New York are so elongated.

“Then, the guys on (talk radio) get on you, move it up another notch and everyone driving to the game listens. You get to the park and your home fans are booing you and after the game you say something stupid.”

It’s also revealed in this same article that Sloane and Delgado considered the Mets “a fourth-place club with or without Carlos,” hinting that New York, if Delgado really did want to go to a contender, was never really an option.

Newsflash: the Mets and Marlins both finished with the same record in 2005, but with Delgado the Mets are an aforementioned six or seven games better, which equates to at least two spots in the standings. Florida, who had Delgado all year, are now the ones who can’t claim to be any better than a tied third/fourth-place club with or without him.

Sloane leaked various other reports via e-mail to the media throughout the following weeks, including one in which Delgado claimed that the Mets approached him because of his Latin American heritage, not because of his reputation as a player.

The Mets continue to take the high road, wishing the issue would just go away. Last week Sloane distributed a Toronto Sun column with which he cooperated, one that accused Al Leiter of badmouthing New York to Delgado during a Jan. 15 recruiting lunch.

“All I’m going to say on this is we tried hard to sign him,” Minaya said. “We gave it our best shot. We wish him well, and I’m not going to dignify those comments that were made. I’ve got a team to take care of. We are working hard to try to improve this team. And I’m going to focus all my energies to the future, not the past.”

Sloane, reached yesterday by the Daily News, said his only intent was to fulfill a pledge he made during the recruiting process to keep media updated on Delgado-related articles.

He then went on to initiate a strange verbal war with Newsday writer Jon Heyman, the contents of which Heyman did not back away from publishing in an amusing article.

Just when I thought I’d received the last of too many e-mailed rantings from David Sloane, the publicity-infatuated agent for Carlos Delgado, he checked in with a response to Wednesday’s column, in which it was pointed out that he’s “a menace.”

Sloane responded: “Tomorrow, your column will line a bird cage. The work I did for my client lives on. Nice knowing you.”

Another of the benefits of 20/20 hindsight is in seeing how easily Sloane was fooled into believing the Marlins’ plans. Third-baseman Mike Lowell’s contract had stipulations about a new stadium being built, and one of the key quotes repeated throughout the Delgado courtship was about Barry Zito.

Sloane asks Loria, “What if at the trade deadline you can deal for Barry Zito, does Carlos’ signing here prevent you from making the deal from a financial standpoint?”

Loria answers: “No it wouldn’t, I’d make that deal.”

Not only did the Marlins not deal for anybody at the deadline, much less a Barry Zito-type, but they’re now edging away from their record 2005 payroll of $66 million. In fact, they may be edging way down to a reported $50 million payroll in 2006 – that $16 million difference accounts for all of Delgado’s 2006 salary plus a half-dozen players making the major-league minimum.

And that’s why we’re currently where we are, with the Florida Marlins actively and aggressively shopping Carlos Delgado one year into his four year contract. And yes, while it’s true that Delgado can void the deal after 2006 were he to be traded, it’s unlikely that he’s going to give up guaranteed $14.5 million and $16 million salaries in his age-35 and age-36 seasons just so that he doesn’t play for the Mets. As has shown, he’s motivated at least partly by money.

Delgado, who signed a four-year, $52 million deal in January, went public with his concerns and with his desire not to be traded on Tuesday when he spoke with Miami-area reporters on a conference call. His agent, David Sloane, reaffirmed yesterday that his client did not want to be dealt anywhere — even to the Mets.

“Carlos signed with the Marlins because he felt they offered a better opportunity for at least the next four years of his career to win the World Series,” Sloane wrote in an e-mail. “Everything that needed to be said for now was said (Tuesday). Carlos wants to remain a Marlin. Period.”

The glorious irony in all of this is that the Mets may just end up with Delgado. Forgetting for a moment what we’d have to give up, or if it’s even worth paying $48 million (including a $4 million buyout of a vesting $16 million salary in 2009, which won’t vest at this point) for the next three seasons of the first-baseman’s career, just ponder how wonderful it is that Omar Minaya and the Mets may yet get the last laugh.

Heck, even if we don’t trade for him, it’ll still be amusing if another team ends up doing it.

The Mets offered Delgado $52 million, a no-trade clause and larger award bonuses. The Marlins offered $52 million. With Delgado, the Marlins are an 83-win team. Without Delgado, the Mets are also an 83-win team; with him? That remains to be seen, but it’s appreciably greater than 83 wins. The Marlins didn’t make their deal for Zito, and they’ve seen ace A.J. Burnett walk; the Mets already have an ace in Pedro, and are chasing free agent relievers Billy Wagner and B.J. Ryan aggressively. Does Sloane fool himself and his client into thinking that the Marlins have more resources and a greater tenacity for deadline deals than the second team from the largest market? Seriously?

And without the no-trade clause in his contract, and with no 10-and-5 rule even looming on the horizon, Delgado can end up a Met as soon as, well, now. The Marlins aren’t attached to him, and even though Delgado can formally demand a trade after 2006 or else void the final two years on his deal, it’s an extreme act that only fools like Javier Vazquez undertake.

So sit back and enjoy the show. After last year’s painful dealings with David Sloane, this is wonderful, horrible payback.


86 Responses to “The David Sloane Files”

  1. Comment posted by Mike in SF on November 19, 2005 at 1:40 am (#16533)

    Great article.

    Given the circumstances of Delgado’s refusal to sign with the Mets this past offseason, I believe they should pass on him.

    If Delgado did come to New York, it would be with a cloud over his head. The media that Leiter so maligned would have fodder a-plenty to attack him with. He would be joining a team he had earlier spruned, and would have a difficult time contributing to the fullness of his abilities.

    I believe, too, that the Mets should pass on Manny Ramirez. While a prodigious run producer, he’s also a well known clubhouse cancer (on the other hand, the same was said of Pedro, who turned out to be Mr. Met – a model citizen and great entertainer).

    I’m of the opinion that the Mets should look West. They should seek out players less known in the Eastern media corridor. Recruit players known for strong work ethic, solid clubhouse precense, and heads down, game winning play. By doing so, Minaya would avoid the obvious moves, would import talent without contraversy, and could create a team free of the competitive issues of the Boston, Philly, Yankees media-induced free agent frenzy.

  2. Comment posted by Andrew Hintz on November 19, 2005 at 1:42 am (#16534)

    As much as I’d love to have Carlos Delgado, I think I’d love to watch his contract cripple the Marlins for the next three years even more. Just thinking of David Sloane aggravates me to no end — and after Mike Timlin fired him this offseason, nothing would please me more than having Delgado fire him as well after the Marlins complete a 76-86 season next year.

  3. Comment posted by mets5715 on November 19, 2005 at 1:43 am (#16535)

    Screw Sloane. Is Delgado his only client? the guy is a complete moron thinks hes funny bashes teams so if he has another client we wouldnt deal with him. the guy needs a life from reading the papers it said every day hed email them with updates, hes a lil too personal to be a good agent. screw this guy we should get delgado and just laugh at him and be like too bad u didnt get a no trade clause moron.

  4. Comment posted by Rich on November 19, 2005 at 1:46 am (#16536)

    Andrew couldnt agree with you more. lets the marlins have to keep that contract and be tied up for the next 3 years. lets get young guys to help our core and get into the right direction of building a team for the long haul. Also would be pretty funny watching Delgado fire Sloane and then have Sloane email all the press to let them know about it.

  5. Comment posted by sweetlew on November 19, 2005 at 1:47 am (#16537)

    Nice, nice piece, Damien – it makes me change my stance on Delgado – F him and his agent, let him rot in FL or get traded to the Os. In either case, he will never even smell the post season.

    Forget the drama this season. The best thing would be for the Mets to win the NL East with Xavier Nady and Mike Jacobs at firstbase. Then Sloane can gloat about what he got for his client!

  6. Comment posted by Stefan on November 19, 2005 at 1:48 am (#16538)

    I honestly belive that from the beginnig of this offseason Omar had a major plan to get the man he has been persuing from the time he landed in NY. And that man isn’t Delgado, the man is Manny Ramirez. I think and I have said it about three times already that Omar got Nady to give to the Marlins along with a pitching prospect. He will then use Delgado to get Manny. It makes perfect sense.

    The Marlins need to get rid of Delgado, but when they do they need a cheep young first baseman (Nady).The Sox want a first baseman, they also won’t trade Manny unless they can get a good power hitter like Delgado. However these two teams can’t make a deal because The Marlins can’t afford Manny (they are trying to dump salary). The Mets are the middle man. They will take Delgados contract which is only 1 mil less than Mannys, and trade Manny for Delgado. Omar gets his one true dream to come true. The marlins get rid of delgados big contract and also pick up an OK first baseman. And the Sox get rid of Manny, and also get a big time slugger.

    Now from the Mets perspective having Manny over Delgado will me much better. We have Jacobs who is a lefty at first base, so it wouldn’t make much sense to have 2 lefty first baseman. We now need an outfielder being that cameron is gone. Manny and Delgado are months apart in age, and the fact is that Manny is the better of the two players. I would gladly pay Manny 1 mil more to play for me than have Delgado and save 1 mil and not be able to use Jacobs.

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  8. Comment posted by Emad on November 19, 2005 at 1:49 am (#16539)

    Mets may yet get the last laugh

    Trading Heilman and Petit is NOT getting the last laugh, especially since Delgado made 4M last year in a heavily backloaded contract, the entirety of which, we would have to assume in order for a deal to be made.

    Essentially, we are giving up our top pitching prospect, plus others, to pay Delgado the same salary, only for one fewer year. We only get the last laugh by refusing to trade for him at all, or, at the very least, by offering the Marlins next to nothing for him in return, as it is basically asinine. No Petit, No Milledge… enjoy the American League East, Carlos!

    Boy, writing that felt great!

  9. Comment posted by kanehl on November 19, 2005 at 1:50 am (#16540)

    IMHO, the Mets should go hard for Delgado. Sloane’s an ass, Delgado didn’t stand for the Anthem (but he did it in a quiet, stay-in-the-dugout way and he’s entitled to his opinion), Delgado’s no Doug M at 1st: None of this matters. He’s a true middle-of-the-order stud. Of the names frequently mentioned, only Manny is in this class and he’s got a bigger contract and more baggage than Delgado. I believe that Carlos would transform our order. And let’s not delude ourselves: without a stud in the middle, our 2005 lineup did not produce enough runs to support our staff. And that’s with Cliff having a career year. What will it look like if he goes DL, or comes back to Earth, in 2006?

    So, Petit, Heilman, Nady (for example)? In a heartbeat. Only untouchable? Milledge. And if we can’t get Delgado? Trade for Dunn. He’ll hit 35 HRs even at Shea, his OBP is strong, and, at his age, his best years should still be ahead.

  10. Comment posted by dagezi on November 19, 2005 at 2:05 am (#16542)

    Forget Delgado and Ramirez– get Adam Dunn. Or even Austin Kearns. Frankly I dont care if we are an 87 win team or an 89 win team next year; I want to win 100 several years in a row in the late 00’s. Build for that not for some piddly wild card bid.

    Dunn is one of the very few players I would trade Petit or Milledge for. (At this point I would actually trade Petit before I would trade Heilman). If Omar has sense, he will look for young players to compliment our rising talent. Not Mo Vaughn or George Foster reruns. Geez, it’s not that hard folks.

    I have no problem with Delgado except that he is old. And aren’t agents paid to be assholes?

  11. Comment posted by Gary on November 19, 2005 at 2:55 am (#16543)

    Last time for me on record about this, but I think I might actually cry if we make a trade for this guy, much less with the deal including Petit? You really have to be kidding me, this has to be a joke because its like we’ve learned nothing in 5 years. Unfreakingbelievable

  12. Comment posted by Tim in VA on November 19, 2005 at 7:58 am (#16547)

    Amen, Emad! The way to have the last laugh on Delgado is to show no interest. Why should we bail the Marlins out of the contract they signed to beat us out of him? Why should we help them build their team when they are in dire financial straits?

    The best revenge is looking good and living well. I think we have enough options to pass on Delgado and take the East in 2006 and beyond, as long as we can make the other moves, like signing a top-notch closer. IMHO, an ace closer would have gotten us the division this year.

    I would like nothing better than to let the Marlins and Delgado live with their own mistakes while the Mets play in the postseason.

  13. Comment posted by Dave on November 19, 2005 at 11:06 am (#16551)

    ..always one to be wary of trading prospects, I’m curious as to what the Mets expect to do with Milledge since Beltran will be patrolling centerfield for the Mets for the next six years or so. As he doesn’t project in my eyes to be a corner outfielder, and is apparently a year or less away from the bigs, where will he play on this club. I’d be more hesitant to trade Petit. Including Milledge in a deal is reasonable, as long as what we take back is a star in his prime, more along the lines of Adam Dunn as opposed to Manny or Delgado.

  14. Comment posted by Steve I. on November 19, 2005 at 11:16 am (#16552)

    No. The way to have the last laugh is to show interest, but do nothing and leave them (the Marlins and Delgado) hanging. Let the Marlins drown under their salary problems. As far as Manny goes, forget him too. He may be a great bat, but I think you are flirting with another “TO” case there.

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  16. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 11:24 am (#16553)

    let’s not delude ourselves: without a stud in the middle, our 2005 lineup did not produce enough runs to support our staff. And that’s with Cliff having a career year. What will it look like if he goes DL, or comes back to Earth, in 2006?

    This is also my concern about Floyd. The Mets will not see the post-season without a heavy hitter like Delgado or Manny hitting cleanup, just not enough offense here. If you want it to be Adam Dunn, fine, but we need an IMPACT PLAYER next year in the lineup.

    And who are we really hurting by saying F-Manny or F-Delgado? We need a hitter!!

  17. Comment posted by itsmetsforme on November 19, 2005 at 11:24 am (#16554)

    HAHA.
    david sloane is such a jack*ss, i wasn’t gonna post anything on this wonderous thread. But then i thought, david sloane is the kind of jack*ss, well, he’s probably reading this right now! And he’s the kind of thin skinned ninny that would google his own name and get really upset about a posting on an internet blog. Hey David, you’re a real prize fool in a really entertaining way.
    Why? There are two things about the Marlins everyone knows. One, they’re prone to winning the world series. Two, they’re prone to dismantling their teams with no prior notice. It looks like you focused on number one, and not so much on number 2. No no trade clause, huh? You’re a real jack*ss, it turns out. Hell, with the bad karma you produced by making your client look like a jack*ss too (and by the way, Senator Al is on the phone and he wants to kick your scrawny little ass for exposing him and loosing him votes), you probably made the Marlins go into the tank! And the best thing is, because you’re such a jack*ss, the comments you and your client made (under your influence we can only guess) were totally unnecessary–the deal was done and you wanted to burn some bridges! Now that the fish has floundered, have fun kissing GM ass, you jack*ss. The work you did for your client lives on!!

  18. Comment posted by sean on November 19, 2005 at 11:28 am (#16555)

    After all that the mets still want him now.

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  20. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 11:28 am (#16556)

    And personally, I’d rather be in the playoffs WITH Delgado or Manny then be sitting home chuckling how they didn’t make it either.

  21. Comment posted by matteey on November 19, 2005 at 12:17 pm (#16560)

    Outstanding piece. Really enjoyed it. Care to write one on the insanity of not pursuing Giles? If I had the time, I’d pen it myself….

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  23. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 12:39 pm (#16566)

    I just don’t get this love affair with Brian Giles. Yes, he’s a damn good player, but :

    1. He’s not nearly as good as Beltran
    2. He’s 35 years old by next season
    3. He’s not the true scary impact player we need to hit cleanup
    4. I’m tired of pursuing yet another #6 hitter that we don’t need

    Why is everyone so afraid of Delgado and Manny heading into the twilight is they get here, yet it’s never mentioned with Giles – who’s even OLDER!

  24. Comment posted by Harry on November 19, 2005 at 12:51 pm (#16568)

    Giles is a filler till Milledge comes up. Delgado would be used for a while see the difference

  25. Comment posted by Lassus on November 19, 2005 at 12:56 pm (#16569)

    HEY!

    Let’s take it easy on George Foster, shall we?

  26. Comment posted by argonbunnies on November 19, 2005 at 12:59 pm (#16570)

    MetsFanSince71, the reason many of us are excited about Giles as opposed to Manny or Delgado is that Giles would cost us nothing but money. And not $16-$18 mil a year of it either. The other two will cost us players who could be integral to a sustained run of success for this team in the future.

    Giles is clearly not Manny, and he doesn’t hit HRs like Delgado, but as for his impact on the lineup, he’s WAY more than a #6 hitter. He’s John Olerud circa 1999 but with more pop. STicking a 420 OBP in your lineup has a HUGE effect. Look at the late-90s Yankees — few mashers, but lots of men on base.

  27. Comment posted by john on November 19, 2005 at 1:03 pm (#16571)

    Why do the mets need a huge impact player like manny or delgado? The huge problem of the offense was getting on base….not power. Look at our lineup….look at the guys that can hit more than 20 hr’s….wright, jacobs, beltran, floyd…..we already have good power from our hitters. The problem was our 1 and 2 hitters did not get on base nearly enough. I’d rather them go after someone with a .350 – .400 OBP guy, then a 35-40hr guy.

    That being said, the only thing offensively they need to do is upgrade 1b and 2b. A full year of jacobs at first with nady already does that. If delgado gives us 6 more wins at first then mikey, what does jacobs and nady give us? Minky was awful last year, you’d have to think jacobs/nady will produce alot more….maybe not as much as delgado, but enough. Why spend all that money on delgado if its only going to amount to a couple extra wins?

    They should focus on 2b and catcher. 2b is the weakest position on this team and the one that needs upgraded the most. We cannot go into next season with matsui or cairo or whoever bench player they put there.

    Closer, 2b, and catcher should be the main focus of this offseason

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  29. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 1:26 pm (#16572)

    I dunno guys….this filler stuff until we wait for Milledge, an unproven minor leaguer? didn’t we all “wait” for Escobar? Payton? These two were also deemed “can’t miss.” Plus, from what some of you have written here, Milledge hasn’t really even shown much pop for a corner outfielder.

    But, argonbunnies and john, you both make a good point about OBP. That and a lack of clutch hitting did the Mets in last year.

    Personally, I think the debate is great, but somewhat mute: Omar will pursue Manny or Delagdo and more than likely land one of them. Remember, this is a sport AND a business that thrives on sexy names being in big markets.

  30. Comment posted by john on November 19, 2005 at 1:35 pm (#16573)

    Yeah and im sure with the new network comming and all they would want one of those huge names.

    It always seems like the mets overhype their prospects. Some turn out to be duds but lately wright and reyes have lived up to the hype. Who knows with milledge. I think its different because not only the mets are hyping this kid up, but ive heard good things about him from everyone thats seen him. I cant wait till he gets the chance. I guess you never really know about prospects until they actually come up and play.

    Anyways if you think about the division, florida is cutting payroll, the braves lost their pitching coach and furcal likely, the mets may gain wagner and the phils will lose him…i think next year the mets have a very good shot at winning the NL east.

  31. Comment posted by brooklynlou on November 19, 2005 at 1:43 pm (#16575)

    Pass on Delgado and twist the knife a little bit more into Florida. Let them squirm a bit trying to dump him and hope that he turns into a long term financial albatross for the club. One less team to compete with.

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  33. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 1:52 pm (#16579)

    Here’s another way to think this….

    IF it doesn’t cost us Milledge, why can’t Manny or Delgado join us now and have Milledge be THEIR offensive replacement when’s he’s ready?

    Anyways if you think about the division, florida is cutting payroll, the braves lost their pitching coach and furcal likely, the mets may gain wagner and the phils will lose him…i think next year the mets have a very good shot at winning the NL east.

    I agree, John….that’s why I say go for it now!

  34. Comment posted by john on November 19, 2005 at 2:11 pm (#16581)

    But then what if milledge is the real deal……then we should keep him and maybe win the division for the next 10 years like the braves. I guess its tough decision because you know what manny or delgado is going to give you, you dont know about milledge so with that logic you say trade him and get manny or delgado. But then he can turn out to be great….like manny and delgado, then keeping him gives us that impact player but for a much longer period of time

    I guess its like this…..would u rather be the florida marlins who won 2 championships in their existence and havent made the playoffs any other time or would u want to be the braves who won the division since 1990 but only won one championship.

    Id rather have a consistent team that gives us a chance to win every year. Then again the divsion wont be that great next year so maybe we should go for it all…..I dunno what they should do

  35. Comment posted by ajsmith on November 19, 2005 at 2:31 pm (#16587)

    Omar’s apparent penchant for aging big names (perhaps it is fair to say aging big latino names?) still worries me, and makes me prone toward waking up in the middle of the night to get online and make sure that the (minor league) cupboard hasn’t been raided.

    That being said, my sense of Omar is that he’s also a proud man, and could not have been amused when Sloan tried to make an ass of him. I doubt, therefore, that he really wants to bring Delgado here, for the same money and one fewer year, at the cost of talent AND money.

    I can definitely see the possibility of Omar working out a 3-team deal wherein Carlos ends up in Boston and Manny comes here. If he can do that without giving up an A-List prospect, then I have no problem with that at all. Milledge’s arm is supposedly good enough to play right field when he gets here, Manny moves to left, and Cliffie goes post-’06. Given his injury history, if we can get one more productive year out of Cliffie, we should consider ourselves fortunate.

    But given all that transpired last year, I would lay 2-1 (or even 10-12, for you baseball betting junkies) that Carlos Delgado is never afforded the honor of donning a Mets’ uniform.

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  37. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 2:42 pm (#16592)

    Omar’s apparent penchant for aging big names (perhaps it is fair to say aging big latino names?)

    Which players are you specifically referring to that he’s brought onboard? Pedro? I’ll take the year Pedro gave us 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

  38. Comment posted by ajsmith on November 19, 2005 at 2:48 pm (#16594)

    I have no problem with either Pedro OR Beltran… I was and remain happy about both signings. But his early enchantment with Sammy Sosa, along with scaring us all to death with his infatuation with Manny and what that might cost us, seems to indicate a trend, no?

  39. Gravatar
  40. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 3:09 pm (#16598)

    ut his early enchantment with Sammy Sosa, along with scaring us all to death with his infatuation with Manny and what that might cost us, seems to indicate a trend, no?

    No, there’s no trend. Only a newspaper or rumor mill trend there. Until it actually happens, there’s not a trend.

    Rest assured, Sosa is far from Omar’s mind and if the deal is right, I have no problem bringing Manny here – again, IF the deal is right . Plus, why cannot it not be? The Sox may be severly hampered by the fact that only the Mets may be willing to take Manny

  41. Comment posted by peeder on November 19, 2005 at 4:06 pm (#16602)

    If he doesn’t want to be here, the hell with him.

  42. Comment posted by ajsmith on November 19, 2005 at 5:54 pm (#16617)

    My point, though, was that I very much doubt that Omar is going to bring Delgado here after what happened last year.

  43. Comment posted by fire willie on November 19, 2005 at 7:03 pm (#16622)

    Andrew and those who echo his “let him rot in FLA” sentiments. I hear you, but we aren’t the only ones in the mix. Blatimore may bail him out of there for Penn and Loewen.

  44. Gravatar
  45. Comment posted by MetsFanSince71 on November 19, 2005 at 8:03 pm (#16625)

    Wel, I can’t be spiteful and say “let him rot in FLA” when Delgado is a guy who could mean more wins and be the difference between playing golf and getting to the playoffs next year.

    Plus, beyond the comments he made about Omar overplaying the Latin angle to get him last year, we really don’t know how Delgado really feels and what he s***head agent wants us to believe. Furthermore, who cares when the agent isn’t the one who grabs a bat?

  46. Comment posted by john on November 19, 2005 at 8:36 pm (#16628)

    Yeah thats true……so far all the comments ive seen were from his agent, not himself. We dont know how he truely feels.

  47. Comment posted by n8genius on November 19, 2005 at 11:02 pm (#16636)

    Manny this… Manny that..its enough to make u sick…give it a rest…what if hes the secong coming of SumoVaughn…is anybody ready for that kind of death march….Groom somebody of trade for some potential….steal away Adrian Gonzalez or better yet trade the surplus of pitching for the Diamondbacks plethora of young talent…lets pick somebody elses pocket for a welcome change…keep Seo…boot Zambrano and package Trachsel….give em Bannister and that flamethrower with control problems whose name escapes me at the moment…forget bout Delgado;s ego and assinine agent….let em mildew in the Florida humidity…hes just not worth it…take a flyer on Helton possibly…hes a banger and he’s available w/out mortgaging our future….Dunn is a strikeout waiting to happen, but if he can be snuck away from the Dreds under their noses then I say go for it….but no Manic Manny and Delgado is more than unwise its downright foolhardy to overpay for someone who would rebel at the conditions at Shea (airplane fuel exhaust….voracious media wolves…et al

  48. Comment posted by Greg on November 20, 2005 at 6:05 pm (#16690)

    go mets

  49. Comment posted by tom on November 21, 2005 at 4:59 pm (#16877)

    Giles is clearly not Manny, and he doesn’t hit HRs like Delgado

    argonbunnies, i agree with your sentiment re: giles, but i think you’re actually selling him short a bit in comparison to manny. in 2005 manny put up 30.9 batting win shares. giles put up 32.3 batting win shares. so, giles in fact had the better year using win shares as the metric. even when you use other sophisticated metrics you see that giles and manny both had great years, but giles was a bit better. i just don’t get why metsfansince71 is so down on giles. maybe he won’t be great going forward, but at least give the guy the proper respect for the season he just put up. those numbers are done and in the bank. and they’re better than beltran’s and better than manny’s. giles done had himself a good year!

  50. Comment posted by Woodstock Met Fan on November 24, 2005 at 1:27 pm (#17406)

    Glad we’re changing and playing real hardball in free agent and trading games. Got to get people who get on base and not strike out. Also, nothing is more exciting than young players who make it. Don’t give them all up. Second base is important and another table setter who can play defense is essential. Haven’t heard much about this. Teams that win have players who might be unsung but deliver in these small ways.

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