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September 14, 2005
  
The Buzz
by: Jason Mastaitis on Sep 14, 2005 3:57 PM | Filed under: Blog

From Sports Weekly. Discuss.

The Red Sox plan to shop outfielder Manny Ramirez this winter, and have talked about sending Ramirez to the Mets for Carlos Beltran.


83 Responses to “The Buzz”

  1. Comment posted by steve on September 14, 2005 at 4:08 pm (#11763)

    That would be very ballsy by both clubs. Huge risk on both sides. Beltran goes to Boston and has another year looking like Bambi. Boston fans throw Theo Epstein into the harbor. Manny comes here, freaks out and drives the entire city crazy. I think Omar would do it.

  2. Comment posted by Tom on September 14, 2005 at 4:11 pm (#11764)

    If this deal does happen or is even seriously talked about I will hate the mets. They just sign a 5-tool guy with a very promising start to his career to a huge contract, he has a down year his first year, and now they want to trade him?!?!

    Look I kno that Beltran has underperformed this year. The good news is he’ll only get better. Especially if the Mets acquire a guy like Soriano (My choice) to bat 3rd moving Beltran to the 2 spot. We all know Beltran doesn’t really have the makeup for a #3 hitter, Willie is blinded by this point which hurts us. If the mets acquire 1 or 2 big boppers/mashers (the kinds beltran isn’t) then there is no point in getting Manny. A much older player who has been declining progressively and although he would help us definitely for a few more years I think the way the team is with Reyes, Wright and eventually Milledge, WE NEED BELTRAN over Manny.

    That my not make sense to some but to me its a no-brainer. I like Beltran alot despite what he’s done and what u guys say. He has a lot to offer. Looking at the Mets future of what should be the top 3 in the lineup (Reyes, Beltran, Wright) I am filled with joy. Beltran’s got everything but the least of what he has is power (it’s there but not manny-esque, not even floyd-esque). Why Willie keeps batting him in th wrong spot befuddles me and I really hate Willie for it.

    KEEP BELTRAN! JUST BAT HIM 2nd!!!

    I think this is better for teh outlook of the Mets. If they NEED manny that much, trade Floyd (getting old) or cameron or zambrano or kaz matsui. Those guys r way more expendable and u could easily package something with that.

  3. Comment posted by Omar Theo Epstein Minaya on September 14, 2005 at 4:14 pm (#11765)

    Manny for Beltran?

    How about Bill Mueller for David Wright?

    Or Tony Graffanino for Jose Reyes?

    Or Keith Foulke for Pedro Martinez?

    Manny is a great hitter, but his fielding would be atrocious in spacious Shea Stadium. And while Beltran has had an off year, he will get better.

    Beltran is also younger and a better all-round player than Manny.

  4. Comment posted by Bragan on September 14, 2005 at 4:16 pm (#11766)

    For most of this season I would have said “No way!” But perhaps influenced by my dejection over the recent tailspin, I’m beginning to think that I’d be willing to trade Beltran’s glove for Manny’s bat.

    Part of me still wants to give Beltran one healthy season to prove he’s worth that $119 million (or at least close to it). On the other hand, we could of course put Cameron in center and Manny would look awfully nice batting clean-up after Wright.

  5. Comment posted by steve on September 14, 2005 at 4:16 pm (#11767)

    I’m sure the Red Sox would really be jonesing to get Floyd, Zambrano and Matsui for Manny. If they twisted your arm would you throw in Cairo? Come on.

  6. Comment posted by Andrew Hintz on September 14, 2005 at 4:30 pm (#11768)

    The Mets would be a far stronger team next year with Beltran and Manny than with only one of either.

    I have been, and still am, all for trading for Manny. But I think that with a year under his belt Beltran will respond more along the lines of A-Rod (upswing) than Alomar (downswing) next season. Especially if Willie puts him in the right role as a two hitter.

    But a one through four of Reyes, Beltran, Wright and Ramirez? Absolutely sick.

  7. Comment posted by Jimmy C on September 14, 2005 at 5:08 pm (#11770)

    I’m glad to see that everyone is so patient. One poor (by his standards) year by Beltran and we’re ready to trade him off. Fantastic! Let’s trade Pedro because he isn’t throwing 93 anymore!

    Put Beltran in the 2nd spot (NOTE: Earth to Willie! Cairo and Matsui cannot keep batting there), get a good clean-up hitter (possibly Manny, just not for Beltran), and move Wright to the 3rd spot. With Reyes leading off… that would be a NASTY top of the order.

  8. Comment posted by Harry on September 14, 2005 at 5:14 pm (#11771)

    uuh then we have two left fielders and one centerfielder(cameron)

  9. Comment posted by sh on September 14, 2005 at 5:19 pm (#11772)

    The merits of Manny vs. Bustran aside, is it even possible that the Mets’ blockheaded organization gets the better of a deal with Theo Epstein & Co? The Sox front office must be salivating every time the Mets call. It reminds me of the line from Rounders when he says “if you can’t spot the sucker at the table in the first half hour then you ARE the sucker.” The Sox have clearly spotted the sucker at the table.

  10. Comment posted by kalen on September 14, 2005 at 5:22 pm (#11773)

    Does anyone have any information on Cuban first base prospect Mitchell Abreu?…..From what I understand not only is he highly regarded, but being persued by a number of Teams. (Source:www.mlb4u.com)

  11. Comment posted by Brian S. on September 14, 2005 at 5:25 pm (#11774)

    I am pretty sure that Beltran has a no trade clause for at least 5 of the 7 years. However, if I were him I would waive it in a heartbeat to get out of the black hole that is the New York Mets.

  12. Comment posted by zod on September 14, 2005 at 5:25 pm (#11775)

    Some comments.

    Wright should be batting third. Obviously.

    Beltran, second. Obviously.

    We need a cleanup hitter, which is why I wanted Delgado so, so much. Ah well.

    Soriano is absolutely not the answer to bat third. I think I’d become an A’s fan or something if that were to happen. The dude is sporting a .313 OBP this year. He can’t hit away from Texas. He’ll be 30 in January and plays horrible defense. Pass.

    I’d take Manny and Shoppach and Youkilis from the Sox. Not sure what we’d give up.

  13. Comment posted by John in Tampa on September 14, 2005 at 5:27 pm (#11776)

    Why would you want to trade Beltran for Manny, when most of you would not trade K-ammy and some stupid, over-rated prospects for him this year when he could have made a difference. This disgusts me, thank god it’s football season. At least the season was interesting enough till football started. Manny should be here right now, and if you don’t think he would have made us +5 in the win column, your nuts. Instead, were stuck with K-ammy and his crushed face, and some prospects we might see next semptember in some meaningless games.

  14. Comment posted by The Real Marty on September 14, 2005 at 6:35 pm (#11781)

    The Red Sox plan to shop outfielder Manny Ramirez this winter, and have talked about sending Ramirez to the Mets for Carlos Beltran.

    Didn’t they put him on waivers the last two years? My guess is they would do it again except they know Omar is a sucker. They would love to do it and drop the $40M he’s owed for two years and sign Giles and Konnerko for less money.

    Remember, they are going to let Damon walk. So Cammy’s value will be high since there are a number of teams that need a CF.

  15. Comment posted by Enrique on September 14, 2005 at 6:39 pm (#11782)

    Moves I suggest that we have to make:

    - Manny & Shoppach for Floyd (I suppose Damon will re-sign with the Sox), Zambrano (his biggest sucess has come against the AL East, especially the Yankees) and Ambiorix Concepcion

    - Soriano & A.Gonzalez for Cameron and Traschel

    - Go and get A.J.Burnett for the rotation and Felix Rodriguez for the bullpen

    - Matsui and R.Ring for Guardado

    1B: M. Jacobs / A.Gonzalez
    2B: A. Soriano
    SS: J. Reyes
    3B: D. Wright
    RF: V. Diaz
    CF: C. Beltran
    LF: M. Ramirez
    C: R. Castro / K.Shoppach
    Bench: C.Woodward
    Bench: M.Anderson
    Bench: A.Hernandez
    Bench: A.Pagan

    Batting Order: 1 Reyes 2 Beltran 3 Wright 4 Ramirez 5 Soriano 6 Diaz 7 Jacobs / Gonzalez - 8 Castro / Shoppach

    Pitchers:

    SP: P.Martinez
    SP: A.J.Burnett
    SP: K.Benson
    SP: J.Seo
    SP: T.Glavine
    RP: H.Bell
    RP: A.Heilman
    RP: F.Rodriguez
    RP: T.Hamulack
    RP: J.Padilla
    Closer: E.Guardado

    Other relievers possiblities: B.Mcginley, S.Takatsu, T.Yates, O.Moreno, B.Fortunato

    7 Players that are above Single A that are untouchable:
    -B.Bannister
    -Y.Petit
    -L.Milledge
    -P.Humber
    -M.Pelfrey
    -G.Hernandez
    -C.Gomez

    - In 2006-07 Glavine will leave and Bannister, Petit or Pelfrey would be ready to replace him

    What do you think?

  16. Comment posted by frustrated fan on September 14, 2005 at 6:45 pm (#11783)

    Manny WAS on waivers a few years back. That was the time to grab him for nothing other than his salary. Mets continue to try and make the back pages rather than cultivate the team from within. Plenty of young guys on the farm who should be given a shot, but for some odd reason these players are groomed for trades rather than playing at shea. Why can’t they give the young guns a shot look at Atlanta, they gave their talent a shot and didn’t back off during slumps alla willie and jacobs.
    Mets management sucks!

  17. Comment posted by zod on September 14, 2005 at 6:47 pm (#11784)

    I mostly like those moves, but worry that Soriano can’t hit on the road (or in a pitchers’ park like Shea), that he’s terrible defensively, will be 30 in January, and will be VERY expensive.

  18. Comment posted by Mark in Astoria on September 14, 2005 at 6:50 pm (#11785)

    I’m gonna throw my dime in the keep Beltran and bat him 2nd second hat.

    I have to believe there’s more to this guy than what we’ve seen, that he hasn’t gone Alomar on us. True, he’s gettin’ paid to be a 3 guy but the Yanks have a pretty costly top of the line up guy (Jeter) so why not? As we have seen all year long, ya gotta have table setters if ya wanna score runs.

    Manny is tailor made for Boston, if they know what’s best they won’t break up the Manny/Ortiz combo which is far more potent than Beltran/Ortiz. I think if they are hurting because it will cost big $s to resign to Damon, which Theo really should have done before the season…

  19. Comment posted by Napes on September 14, 2005 at 7:26 pm (#11786)

    Please god no. Ill take a 29 year old #2 hitter who can steal bases and play good center (even if he does underperform) over a 34 year old left fielder who cannot catch or cover any ground whatsoever. Fine, he is a hitting machine, but not a good fit for this club. We do not need anymore Veterans. Also, soriano would be a dumb move also…not a solution for our consistency woes…

  20. Comment posted by Born Yesterday on September 14, 2005 at 8:31 pm (#11787)

    after we make all those moves we should sign BJ Ryan, Rodriguez/Ryan could be like Orosco/McDowell, then we should give Doc a call and give him a job as pitching coach(because he is down on his luck and we do things the Yankee I mean Met way) since I hear Rick Peterson might be gone soon. Him and Pedro on the bench with fros, it would be awesome

    then we should graffiti Shea Stadium with Willie must go(in the off

    then just before Spring Training, Omar will sign Sammy Sosa to a minor league deal

  21. Comment posted by Jimmy C on September 14, 2005 at 9:21 pm (#11789)

    I hope you’re kidding about the Doc Gooden suggestion…

  22. Comment posted by frustrated fan on September 14, 2005 at 9:32 pm (#11790)

    I wish Omar would have pulled the trigger and made the sammy trade earlier in the year. He would have been much better here at Shea. we could’ve had him all year in 3 hole and force beltran in the 2 hole then. Omar needs some brass b….

  23. Comment posted by Ricardo Gonzalez on September 14, 2005 at 9:46 pm (#11791)

    Carlos Gomez should be untouchable? You are joking right?

    Personally, I think this is what the Mets should do:

    1. Sign Brian Giles. Whatever it takes.

    2. Sign Wagner or Ryan. Whatever it takes.

    3. Trade Cameron for prospects or relief help.

    4. Shop for a first-baseman. If the price tags are too high or nothing good presents itself, look for a couple of AAA mashers or Kevin Millar types to compete/platoon with Jacobs/Diaz.

    5. Shop for a second-baseman. If nothing good presents itself, give Matsui another chance. If he fails again, Hernandez and Keppinger should be brought up.

    6. Shop around for a catcher. Piazza or Hernandez should be offered one-year deals. If they decline, let Castro catch.

    7. Let Looper walk and resign Hernandez. Shop for cheap relievers. Look for high K/9 and K/BB numbers.

    8. Print playoff tickets.

  24. Comment posted by metstime on September 14, 2005 at 9:59 pm (#11792)

    Who cares? Nothing will the Mets unless……..they TRADE OMAR for THEO EPSTEIN….or TRADE WILLIE GUMP for LOU PINELLA….

  25. Comment posted by Erik Not From The Bronx & Not With The Last Name Simon on September 14, 2005 at 11:01 pm (#11794)

    At the expense of Carlos Beltran, I’m not quite sure I’d look at trading for Manny. If it was at the expense of someone like Floyd or Cameron, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Manny is the type of “hitter” the Mets lineup needs. Yes, he’s not going to make many plays in the OF, but he’ll do OK. He’d be that potent bat in the middle of the Mets lineup, driving in 120+ runs, something the Mets lineup has lacked for years now. Like Andrew Hintz mentioned, a lineup consisting of Reyes, Beltran, Wright, and Manny would be sick. Absolutely sick.

    1. Sign Brian Giles. Whatever it takes.

    Instead of Adam Dunn? Giles is an absolutely OBP machine, but if I had to choose between Dunn and Giles, I’d probably pick Dunn. Dunn is 25, Giles is 34 and Dunn is also the kind of hitter the Mets lineup needs, like a Manny Ramirez. Dunn’s Slg% is over .50 points higher than Giles, granted the park factors for each players. However, if the acquisition of Adam Dunn fails, I wouldn’t say I’d be disappointed that the Mets signed Brian Giles if that’s the case.

  26. Comment posted by Ricardo Gonzalez on September 14, 2005 at 11:44 pm (#11795)

    The decision isn’t between Dunn and Giles. The decision is between Dunn minus the package it would to get him, and Giles minus the extra money it would take to sign him. Considering that to get Dunn the Mets would have to give up Milledge plus, it’s pretty clear in which way the Mets should go. Certainly, as an older player, Giles is the bigger risk, but I think that with a player of his caliber, that risk is minimal. Giles is and has been one of the best hitters in the league for a long time now, and he hasn’t shown any real signs of decline. Yes, his OPS has dropped since moving to SD, but that was to be expected as Petco is quite possibly the best pitchers’ park in the majors. His OBP, which is obviously the most important part of OPS, and the area in which the Mets need the most help, is the 4th best in game. FOURTH BEST. His BB/K is 110/58. You read that right. He has walked a HUNDRED AND TEN TIMES and only struck out only FIFTY EIGHT times. He’s exactly the type of hitter we need and the best part is that the only thing we need to do to get him is outbid everybody else.

  27. Comment posted by bmc on September 15, 2005 at 12:14 am (#11797)

    I have a question that’s completely off topic, but i’m putting here anyway.

    Are the Mets being out-advance-scouted? Is the overhaul of the scouting department contributing to their freefall? Are the Mets simply being out prepared and not adjusting?

    I’m watching the young hitters go up to bat with minimal plan in mind, and get totally picked apart by pitchers who they should be hitting. The pitchers have a plan, they appear to have read the book on the mets hitters, they know who they’re facing. This seems especially true with Diaz and Jacobs, and to a lesser extent Reyes.

    The pattern goes, advance scouts and video guys will find a hitter’s hole - the pitchers work on those holes - the batters adjust and start hitting - the cycle repeast itslef.

  28. Comment posted by Omar Theo Epstein Minaya on September 15, 2005 at 3:33 am (#11803)

    One question: Why it is that the Mets seem to be suckers for bad trades and free agent signings?

    Just curious.

  29. Comment posted by cal on September 15, 2005 at 8:37 am (#11809)

    “matsui and royce ring for eddie gaurdaro” u guys come on we have 2 be realistic a trade like this 1 just inst gonna happen, also ppl have 2 understand dunn is not a free agent next year, ud have 2 give up the farm system 4 him.

  30. Comment posted by luis on September 15, 2005 at 8:39 am (#11810)

    If it takes Milledge to get Dunn, it should be done- you get a 25 yr old who has proven he can hit, will take a walk and has power-Milledge is not a guaranteed big leaguer, no matter what is said(jason tyner, shawn abner anyone) where Dunn is-trading beltran is stupid-he is a Cf who will year in year out hit 285-310-,20-40 HR, 25-50 sb when healthy plus GG defense-what other CF will hit like that? Enough of the Manny talk- poor D, from Fenway to Shea, the boos when he loafs, what do you think he will hit here??

  31. Comment posted by Erik Not From The Bronx & Not With The Last Name Simon on September 15, 2005 at 12:26 pm (#11821)

    Considering that to get Dunn the Mets would have to give up Milledge plus, it’s pretty clear in which way the Mets should go.

    I don’t think it’s a certain that Milledge would be involved in a trade for Dunn. However, I do feel like it’d atleast have to involve a guy like Petit in order to get Dunn. You brought up some nice stats on Giles, things I had already looked into, but to say the Mets need an On-Base guy more than anything can be turned around to the fact that they need a guy to consistently drive those guys in. Dunn is an RBI machine, as he currently stands at 90 RBI’s and will likely get to 100 before the year is over.

    However, you bring up a good point as to the difference between getting Giles and getting Dunn. It’s going to take a good chunk of players to get Dunn, while it’ll also take a good chunk of money to get a guy like Giles in a New York Mets jersey.

  32. Comment posted by randy on September 15, 2005 at 1:55 pm (#11824)

    I’d love to have Manny, but I’d also love to see a healthy Beltran for a full year…I’d turn this one down and try to get Manny some other way.

  33. Comment posted by frustrated fan on September 15, 2005 at 1:56 pm (#11825)

    trade beltran for sosa,
    sign Palmeroid for 1b give him some extra juice,
    trade all top prospects for dunn

    Done deal!

  34. Comment posted by frustrated fan on September 15, 2005 at 1:58 pm (#11827)

    Throw another in there, trade Seo to Yanks and get Leiter back here where he belongs. If Leiter falters our back up plan will be Ishii and Graves!

  35. Comment posted by Matt in Charlotte on September 15, 2005 at 3:23 pm (#11833)

    Trading Beltran for Manny would rank as one of the dumbest moves in Mets history. As much as Beltran has underperformed this year, he is going to be 29 at the start of next season, Manny will turn 34 next May. I am all for getting Manny, but not at the sacrifice of 5 years of playing. The Red Sox do not want Manny anymore, he has become far too much of a distraction, this means we can acquire him for much less. I think they would let him go for Mike Cameron and Glavine, and that is a trade of value for the Mets.

    Same goes for trying to sign Brian Giles. He will be 35 next season, and his best value as a player is that he walks alot. This is most likely his last shot at free agency, so he will want a 3-to-4 year deal - Do we want to be paying a 39-year-old @8 million to be stumbling around right field in a few years? I thought we wanted to learn from our mistakes (signing older, decling free agents is a bad idea. period. - I mean, do we need to put pictures of Roberto Alomar and Mo Vaugh on a t-shirt with a big NO! underneath it, before this sinks in?)

    This season has been so frustrating, I think we would all agree. The Mets need to stay young and fill the holes that have been their downfall this season.

    I say we go balls out for Paul Konerko. He is as good of a defensive first baseman as Minky, but with much, much more power. He will only turn 30 at the start of next season and he is everything we have lacked at 1B this year.

    Next, we need to a closer - either BJ Ryan or Billy Wagner - not sure which - Wagner has the track record but is almost 5 years older, Ryan has only been a closer this season, but has done an amazing job at it. Either one is fine with me, but I might side on Ryan for his age and K-per-inning.

    I do not think we should sign AJ Burnett. He is going to cost waaay too much for being an injury-prone, often times average pitcher. What is the point of having the kids in our system if all we do is let them rot in the minors or trade them away for marginal major leaguers? I say stick with Pedro, Kris, Jae, (maybe) Aaron. And then let the others earn their way into the rotation.

    At 2B, I don’t see where we would get any value in trading KazMat, but I would feel alot better signing a proven player like Mark Grudzielanek or Ray Durham. Overall, I would feel fine seeing us keep KazMat and give Anderson and Jeff a chance to succeed. If we fix our other holes, 2B is not nearly an issue.

    Such an issue that must be corrected: Jose Reyes must learn how to bunt and become more patient at the plate, otherwise he can not bat leadoff for us again. Don’t get me wrong, I think Jose is a future All Star, but Willie does neither him nor the team any good continuing to allow him to bat first when he can’t get on base even 30% of the time, let alone closer to 35%-40% of the time, which should be expected of the leadoff hitter.

    Overall, I guess my feelings are that the Mets have some nice pieces (especially DAVID WRIGHT!), but need to fix some things to be a serious contender next season. And I think the players are out there in free agency - which allows us to maintain the intergrity of our farm system and the future of the organization.

    ps: a sweep of the Brave this weekend would do wonders for this team’s chances next season…

    As always - Let’s Go Mets!

  36. Comment posted by avid on September 16, 2005 at 11:03 am (#11906)

    Hmm… what’s that thing Beltran has again? i forget… oh yeah that’s a right, A NO TRADE CLAUSE. Which is the only reason he came to the Mets in the first place. He’s prepared to be in New York for the next 7 years and there’s no way he’d allow a trade. Such a stupid rumor.

  37. Comment posted by Jordan F on September 16, 2005 at 12:43 pm (#11916)

    man are you guys whiny - this team, contrary to what anyone thought they could do, actually played some meaningful games heading into this month. they just werent ready to make the last few steps, and no one expected that they would be good enough yet. It has ALWAYS been about NEXT year - reyes one year older and now with a full healthy year under his belt - wright turning into one of the best hitters in the league - beltran getting that first NY year over with and now can focus on just playing (hes too talented to suck forever)

    Go get BJ Ryan - hes gone under the radar a bit lately - looper is just plain awful. He’s no closer for a winning team. a flamethrower like ryan is what we need - or go get a guardado - i wince every time i see looper out there and reflect on all his blown saves (yes i know some were caused by errors in the field, but youre a closer, go get the next out)

    Trade Cameron - its a waste having him out there in right field - reyes strikes out enough in the leadoff - we dont need our #2 or #5 or wherever the hell willie hits him K’ing every other at bat also - i love the guy, but he’s just not doing it here - get a 2b out of him (maybe julio lugo? i like the guy - hes what kazmat shouldve been but a proven major leaguer)

    Get a defensive catcher - find a way to pry schneider from a mlb-run nationals

  38. Comment posted by randy on September 16, 2005 at 1:25 pm (#11922)

    Jordan,
    Maybe you’re missing the point. In Met country, with the exceptions of ‘69, ‘73, ‘86 and 2000, it’s always about waiting for next year. Some people may just be getting tired of this organization making the same mistakes over and over. I won’t say anything about Minaya yet, as he hasn’t had time to blow it, and I’m optimistic about next year too, but I’m just tired of them “not being good enough yet”.

  39. Comment posted by Baseball Crank on September 20, 2005 at 7:10 pm (#12129)

    BASEBALL: Buy High, Sell Low

    This would not be a good idea….

  40. Comment posted by bmc on September 20, 2005 at 11:47 pm (#12135)

    This smells like total funk to me. There’s no way Omar deals Beltran. No. way.

    On the other hand, there are a bunch of options that could make this work. The Mets should try and package Zambrano in any deal along with Cameron Diaz, or Mike Floyd, or maybe Cornelius “Bert” Hernandez.

    Be all that as it may, the Mets should run in the opposite direction of any Manny deal. Homeboy has a distinct Mo Vaughn feel to him… declining right-handed bat with a laissez faire attitude, going from a first to last team? It’s a recipe for disaster.

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