GDT - 5/17/10 -- Can we change the site's name back to Rays Geek?

[sweetlew]

God -- I hope Omar is going to Atlanta to fire himself and Jerry in a joint move!

[sweetlew]

Hey! Buffalo brough big Val Pascucci back!

That seems to be a sign that Carter is staying up

[sweetlew]

Pat Misch decided to make a case for himself --- CG 4-hit shut out on Saturday

[Ramon Suarez]

I totaled my remote control into several pieces when I saw Jerry removing Carter for Franceour in a PH situation against the LOOGY. You have a situation where someone who is ice old with a mid-.200s OPS is coming off the bench replacing a dude with a 1.000 OPS against LHP in AAA.

[sheadenizen]

morning lew...got to run in a bit...off for the day but a few thoughts...
Val was brought back back before the lollie and Niese disasters.
With lollie refusing to go to the minors, he holds a roster spot for no reason...so therefore, they need to clear one if they bring up Dickey. You don't think Omar is DFAing GMj, do you? So know what? Bye bye, Carter. That's my feeling. Not sure waht happens with Niese...to DL or not to DL..that is the question. If not, but he misses a turn there's another roster post wasted.
Dpn't know what they'll do, but lollie is a selfish son of a bitch. it's all about him. The team be damned!

[sheadenizen]

I totaled my remote control into several pieces when I saw Jerry removing Carter for Franceour in a PH situation against the LOOGY. You have a situation where someone who is ice old with a mid-.200s OPS is coming off the bench replacing a dude with a 1.000 OPS against LHP in AAA.

We couldn't agree more Ramon. We jumped all over it yesterday.

[sweetlew]

Jerry is a moron.

Yes, we lost yesterday and the pitching is falling apart --- but look how the offense responded when he put Jose back in the lead-off spot, moved Bay and sat Frenchy.

If we have any offense Fri or Saturday, we would have won those games.

And now it seems evident that he has already over worked Nieve

[sweetlew]

morning lew...got to run in a bit...off for the day but a few thoughts...
Val was brought back back before the lollie and Niese disasters.
With lollie refusing to go to the minors, he holds a roster spot for no reason...so therefore, they need to clear one if they bring up Dickey. You don't think Omar is DFAing GMj, do you? So know what? Bye bye, Carter. That's my feeling. Not sure waht happens with Niese...to DL or not to DL..that is the question. If not, but he misses a turn there's another roster post wasted.
Dpn't know what they'll do, but lollie is a selfish son of a bitch. it's all about him. The team be damned!

They are not going to cut a position player and keep an extra arm in the pen.

Likely, right now if Niese needs to be DL'ed, Dickey can take his spot. Than Taka2 goes to the rotation to replace Niese and Ollie ::shudder:: takes over as the long man out of the pen.

[four3two1]

I totaled my remote control into several pieces when I saw Jerry removing Carter for Franceour in a PH situation against the LOOGY. You have a situation where someone who is ice old with a mid-.200s OPS is coming off the bench replacing a dude with a 1.000 OPS against LHP in AAA



this.

[sweetlew]

I was willing to support Ollie right up until he refused a minor league assignment --- I can't believe Boras isn't on his ass about that --- the last thing Ollie needs on top of being shitty is to be difficult and a non-team player.

He can forget ever getting another big contract

[sheadenizen]

Where's that Gilhooley kid when we need him. Tonya Harding...paging Tonya Harding. Please pick up the courtesy phone.

[sheadenizen]

I was willing to support Ollie right up until he refused a minor league assignment --- I can't believe Boras isn't on his ass about that --- the last thing Ollie needs on top of being shitty is to be difficult and a non-team player.

He can forget ever getting another big contract

that's of little consolation to any of us at the moment. his pitching performance alone should eliminate that.

[sweetlew]

that's of little consolation to any of us at the moment. his pitching performance alone should eliminate that.

That's why I am stunned that Boras is letting Ollie do this --- the best thing for Ollie is to go to AAA and work things out out of the spot light.

His behavior is selfish, stupid, and even more career damaging than his performance

[four3two1]

if this team had balls (and brains) they'd make it public they offered to send him to the minors, he refused, and so they released him

[Ramon Suarez]

If the Wilpons had any balls and were willing to manage a large-market team the way it should be handled, they'd DFA Perez's sorry ass after he refused to be sent down just for the message it sends to anyone who selfishly puts their interests over the greater interests of the team: its the dog that wags its tail, not the other way around, and if someone doesn't agree they can go and find work elsewhere.

Its amazing how unwilling the Wilpons are to eat bad contracts no matter how disastrous a player can be. What message does Perez's staying up send to players in this organization who see this type of behavior?

[Ramon Suarez]

if this team had balls (and brains) they'd make it public they offered to send him to the minors, he refused, and so they released him

Beat me too it....LOL

[four3two1]

i gotta give it to matt cerrone. Hope is not a strategy is a damn good title. nicely done.

[lucienlc]

That's why I am stunned that Boras is letting Ollie do this --- the best thing for Ollie is to go to AAA and work things out out of the spot light.

His behavior is selfish, stupid, and even more career damaging than his performance

As many have noted, Ollie is stupid. Wasn't that given by Darling or Ojeda (impliedly at least) as to why he couldn't adjust to his lost velocity and become more of a pitcher than a thrower, instead of trying to do the same thing at 88 mph as he did at 94?
Doesn't surprise me that his ego is larger than his brain.

[lucienlc]

If the Wilpons had any balls and were willing to manage a large-market team the way it should be handled, they'd DFA Perez's sorry ass after he refused to be sent down just for the message it sends to anyone who selfishly puts their interests over the greater interests of the team: its the dog that wags its tail, not the other way around, and if someone doesn't agree they can go and find work elsewhere.

Its amazing how unwilling the Wilpons are to eat bad contracts no matter how disastrous a player can be. What message does Perez's staying up send to players in this organization who see this type of behavior?

There are rumors out there that they won't even DFA GMJr, not because they need a backup CF but because they don't even want to eat his relatively minor contract. Not that is surprising -- these are the same guys who also kept an incompetent pitcher in the rotation for months because they didn't want to eat his $2MM contract.

[lucienlc]

i gotta give it to matt cerrone. Hope is not a strategy is a damn good title. nicely done.

Agree. I thought that was a great title. And so true. That was the Mets' offseason strategy in many ways.

[sweetlew]

i gotta give it to matt cerrone. Hope is not a strategy is a damn good title. nicely done.

He should sell that slogan to the Republican Party! ;)

[four3two1]

He should sell that slogan to the Republican Party! ;)

I think, Don't bring YOUR tea to OUR Party would be more appropo :p

[Ramon Suarez]

He should sell that slogan to the Republican Party! ;)

Sell it to Obama. His whole freaking platform was about hope.

BTW, I hope this Oliver incident shows you the folly of the libertarian philosophy. Perez's freedom to put his individual interests over the greater collective interest puts the team in danger.

[sweetlew]

Sell it to Obama. His whole freaking platform was about hope.

BTW, I hope this Oliver incident shows you the folly of the libertarian philosophy. Perez's freedom to put his individual interests over the greater collective interest puts the team in danger.

The team has the freedom to cut him and let him walk too --- the Wilpons are just too freaking cheap to do it

[lucienlc]

Sell it to Obama. His whole freaking platform was about hope.

BTW, I hope this Oliver incident shows you the folly of the libertarian philosophy. Perez's freedom to put his individual interests over the greater collective interest puts the team in danger.

You evidently don't understand the libertarian philosophy, or certainly not the version I ascribe to. The libertarian philosophy as I know it holds that you should have the right to do as you please -- so long as your actions do not adversely effect others. Obviously, Perez' actions severely handicap the Mets, so even as a libertarian, it's a totally unsustainable attitude.

[Ramon Suarez]

The team has the freedom to cut him and let him walk too --- the Wilpons are just too freaking cheap to do it

But if the Wilpon's cut him then there'd be no freedom....it would be obligated.

Too bad freedom isn't free....

[four3two1]

Ollie doesn't think
therefore he isn't.

[Ramon Suarez]

You evidently don't understand the libertarian philosophy, or certainly not the version I ascribe to. The libertarian philosophy as I know it holds that you should have the right to do as you please -- so long as your actions do not adversely effect others. Obviously, Perez' actions severely handicap the Mets, so even as a libertarian, it's a totally unsustainable attitude.

That's pretty much liberalism....not libertarianism....

[Rave]

Oh good lord. (nr) Haven’t we had enough of a horrible weekend to be subjected to politics afterwards?

[sweetlew]

Oh good lord. (nr) Haven’t we had enough of a horrible weekend to be subjected to politics afterwards?

At this point I would rather discuss political theories with Ramon than watch the Mets play!

[Ramon Suarez]

At this point I would rather discuss political theories with Ramon than watch the Mets play!

Word on that...

[Rave]

Well then go to a political site with him.

/cranky

[Rave]

OK I lie, I'm not done being cranky.

The Mets are just a mess. The freakin' Flyers pulled off a miracle against Rask (that really hurt). And Nadal beat Fed again.

[MyFavBaseballSquadron]

OK I lie, I'm not done being cranky.

The Mets are just a mess. The freakin' Flyers pulled off a miracle against Rask (that really hurt). And Nadal beat Fed again.

Maybe if the B's didn't revert back to regular season form in games 4-6 they could have put the Flyers away. Then again Boucher going down for the Flyers was a positive. Either way I don't see anyone from the East beating either SJ or the Hawks.

[Dogcatcher]

God -- I hope Omar is going to Atlanta to fire himself and Jerry in a joint move!

Ive been a "contra" thinker about much of this stuff for awhile. For the record, I dont hate Castillo, think Jerry isnt the problem (especially the pen), was a defender of Omar's and think DW (tho striking out too much) is very underappreciated. I also think bay will be fine, and even his D is OK. I thought Perez would work out (but i would have covered the contingency)

However, that run we gave up while Castillo was napping was horrendous. he should have been removed from the game.
You cant blame the manager for burning the pen when he's getting an avg of 4 innings from 60% of his rotation.

However, our GM in fact had an extremely poor off season. he made one key move and acquired a player who arguably doesnt even want to be here. Our depth, be it bench, SP or pen is virtually non-existant. We essentially came into this season needing all 3 pitchers to be solid, with little room for error. Given Maine's inability to go past 5, Perez' falloff last year, and Niese being a rookie (and coming off an injury) this was nothing short of insane. The planned use of Tatis as a pt first baseman wasnt much better

Ollie s be ashamed of himself - I have completely turned on him. He is hurting our team and doesnt give a shit.

As for Jerry, I dont see how changing the manager is going to solve the same problems we had all off
season and which Omar did not successfully address. The starting staff is in shambles and we dont have many options.

FTR, Jerry wanted mejia, carter and Ike out of Spring training.

[four3two1]

Ive been a "contra" thinker about much of this stuff for awhile. For the record, I dont hate Castillo, think Jerry isnt the problem (especially the pen), was a defender of Omar's and think DW (tho striking out too much) is very underappreciated. I also think bay will be fine, and even his D is OK. I thought Perez would work out (but i would have covered the contingency)

However, that run we gave up while Castillo was napping was horrendous. he should have been removed from the game.
You cant blame the manager for burning the pen when he's getting an avg of 4 innings from 60% of his rotation.

However, our GM in fact had an extremely poor off season. he made one key move and acquired a player who arguably doesnt even want to be here. Our depth, be it bench, SP or pen is virtually non-existant. We essentially came into this season needing all 3 pitchers to be solid, with little room for error. Given Maine's inability to go past 5, Perez' falloff last year, and Niese being a rookie (and coming off an injury) this was nothing short of insane. The planned use of Tatis as a pt first baseman wasnt much better

Ollie s be ashamed of himself - I have completely turned on him. He is hurting our team and doesnt give a shit.

As for Jerry, I dont see how changing the manager is going to solve the same problems we had all off
season and which Omar did not successfully address. The starting staff is in shambles and we dont have many options.

FTR, Jerry wanted mejia, carter and Ike out of Spring training.

but then why isn't he using carter? and letting frenchy PH for Carter?

[four3two1]

The general manager is in some sort of shadowy puppet setup. He/they/SPECTRE constructed the roster and are responsible for it.

- The ownership group -- who, by the way, assembled this entire cast of characters -- is watching attendance plummet in their one-year-old ballpark, but blame it on the weather. Even though the weather was better this season than the last one.

- Jeff Francoeur is making a strong case to be the one left standing alone when “El Esta Aqui” stops playing in the game of outfield musical chairs upon Beltran’s limpy return.


i laughed...and then i cried

[Rave]

Face it, we’re not that good. Or even a little good. Firing Jerry or dextering Ollie will be extremely satisfying, but it won’t change things much. Let’s do it anyway. What the hell!

[sweetlew]

Ive been a "contra" thinker about much of this stuff for awhile. For the record, I dont hate Castillo, think Jerry isnt the problem (especially the pen), was a defender of Omar's and think DW (tho striking out too much) is very underappreciated. I also think bay will be fine, and even his D is OK. I thought Perez would work out (but i would have covered the contingency)

However, that run we gave up while Castillo was napping was horrendous. he should have been removed from the game.
You cant blame the manager for burning the pen when he's getting an avg of 4 innings from 60% of his rotation.

However, our GM in fact had an extremely poor off season. he made one key move and acquired a player who arguably doesnt even want to be here. Our depth, be it bench, SP or pen is virtually non-existant. We essentially came into this season needing all 3 pitchers to be solid, with little room for error. Given Maine's inability to go past 5, Perez' falloff last year, and Niese being a rookie (and coming off an injury) this was nothing short of insane. The planned use of Tatis as a pt first baseman wasnt much better

Ollie s be ashamed of himself - I have completely turned on him. He is hurting our team and doesnt give a shit.

As for Jerry, I dont see how changing the manager is going to solve the same problems we had all off
season and which Omar did not successfully address. The starting staff is in shambles and we dont have many options.

FTR, Jerry wanted mejia, carter and Ike out of Spring training.

You are cutting Jerry way too much slack.

He continues to go to the same three arms out of the pen and his usage of them (failing to double switch to let a reliever stay in the game, etc.) make this even worse.

He refused for way too long to move Reyes back to the lead-off spot

He bats Castillo (and even worse Cora) in the #2 spot, when both of them should be hitting #8 (with Pagan hitting second)

He hit Jacobs 4th to "break up the righties" even though Bay's career OPS vs. RHP is 200 points higher than Jacobs. (Worst, he lobbied to keep Jacobs on the team over Carter or Ike from the get go)

He has refused to move Wright up to #3 even though he clearly the best hitter on the team

He continues to trot Frenchy out there day after day (until yesterday) even though he has posted an OPS below .250 in May

I will agree that you can't get blood from a stone and there is only so much you can do with this team, but Jerry -- repeatedly -- makes decisions that sets the team up for the worst possible performance.

I would be willing to bet with a good manager who understands statistics, the Mets would have at least 2-3 more wins.

[MyFavBaseballSquadron]

Off the Deutschland, maybe if the Mets start winning again I'll be put in exile.

[SoCal Metfan]

morning lew...got to run in a bit...off for the day but a few thoughts...
Val was brought back back before the lollie and Niese disasters.
With lollie refusing to go to the minors, he holds a roster spot for no reason...so therefore, they need to clear one if they bring up Dickey. You don't think Omar is DFAing GMj, do you? So know what? Bye bye, Carter. That's my feeling. Not sure waht happens with Niese...to DL or not to DL..that is the question. If not, but he misses a turn there's another roster post wasted.
Dpn't know what they'll do, but lollie is a selfish son of a bitch. it's all about him. The team be damned!

At this point, I don't blame Ollie. I blame Omar for giving him that ridiculous contract. If you tell a guy he's worth $36M, it's no surprise that he has delusions about his own talent level. Ollie sucks. Sucks horribly, but it's on management for him still being on the roster.

They might actually have to option Mejia down, because I don't think they want to send down Carter, or they have a 3 man bench (and Jer won't use his reserve catcher to hit, and has banished Tatis to the doghouse). It has to be a pitcher sent down, I think.

[Ramon Suarez]

Ive been a "contra" thinker about much of this stuff for awhile. For the record, I dont hate Castillo, think Jerry isnt the problem (especially the pen), was a defender of Omar's and think DW (tho striking out too much) is very underappreciated. I also think bay will be fine, and even his D is OK. I thought Perez would work out (but i would have covered the contingency

I honestly don't see how someone can believe all of the above in light of this team's record. I can see how someone might believe SOME of the above, but not ALL of the above and yet find a sufficient explanation for why this team is below .500. If it isn't the general manager's, manager's, DW's, Castillo's, or Bay's fault we are a losing team then who's fault is it? CHIPs? There has to be some logical reason this team bites....

[SoCal Metfan]

I was willing to support Ollie right up until he refused a minor league assignment --- I can't believe Boras isn't on his ass about that --- the last thing Ollie needs on top of being shitty is to be difficult and a non-team player.

He can forget ever getting another big contract

Let's be realistic, he wasn't getting another big contract ever, regardless of whether he accepts a demotion or not.

[SoCal Metfan]

That's why I am stunned that Boras is letting Ollie do this --- the best thing for Ollie is to go to AAA and work things out out of the spot light.

His behavior is selfish, stupid, and even more career damaging than his performance

More damaging? No way. If he were pitching half-decently, selfish boorish behavior is ignored.

[Ramon Suarez]

At this point, I don't blame Ollie. I blame Omar for giving him that ridiculous contract. If you tell a guy he's worth $36M, it's no surprise that he has delusions about his own talent level. Ollie sucks. Sucks horribly, but it's on management for him still being on the roster.


Wait a minute. Omar didn't just pull that 36 million dollar figure from thin air. That was a price which was LOWER than the 4 year asking price Perez and his slimeball agent, Scott Boras, told Omar he was worth. So yeah, blame Oliver. If his peice of shit ass asked for 4 million dollars Omar would have gladly paid it. Sadly though, he still would have been overpaid.

[SoCal Metfan]

That's pretty much liberalism....not libertarianism....

You are mistaken.

[Rave]

I honestly don't see how someone can believe all of the above in light of this team's record. I can see how someone might believe SOME of the above, but not ALL of the above and yet find a sufficient explanation for why this team is below .500. If it isn't the general manager's, manager's, DW's, Castillo's, or Bay's fault we are a losing team then who's fault is it? CHIPs? There has to be some logical reason this team bites....

SOF, mostly, if we are to believe the puppet master thing.

I just hope he hasn’t meddled on the draft, because if they waste their high draft pick for another Humber, then the rebuilding will be that much harder.

[Ramon Suarez]

You are mistaken.

Um...no...all forms of liberalism stress pluralism and a negative defintion of freedom. Libertarianism is a far more specific variant of that political philosophy.

[SoCal Metfan]

Ive been a "contra" thinker about much of this stuff for awhile. For the record, I dont hate Castillo, think Jerry isnt the problem (especially the pen), was a defender of Omar's and think DW (tho striking out too much) is very underappreciated. I also think bay will be fine, and even his D is OK. I thought Perez would work out (but i would have covered the contingency)

However, that run we gave up while Castillo was napping was horrendous. he should have been removed from the game.
You cant blame the manager for burning the pen when he's getting an avg of 4 innings from 60% of his rotation.

However, our GM in fact had an extremely poor off season. he made one key move and acquired a player who arguably doesnt even want to be here. Our depth, be it bench, SP or pen is virtually non-existant. We essentially came into this season needing all 3 pitchers to be solid, with little room for error. Given Maine's inability to go past 5, Perez' falloff last year, and Niese being a rookie (and coming off an injury) this was nothing short of insane. The planned use of Tatis as a pt first baseman wasnt much better

Ollie s be ashamed of himself - I have completely turned on him. He is hurting our team and doesnt give a shit.

As for Jerry, I dont see how changing the manager is going to solve the same problems we had all off
season and which Omar did not successfully address. The starting staff is in shambles and we dont have many options.

FTR, Jerry wanted mejia, carter and Ike out of Spring training.

Jerry isn't the root of the problem. Getting rid of him won't make the team a 100-win team, but he certainly hasn't helped, and he *consistantly* makes errors at the margins (really, margins are all a manager can affect). And of course he wanted Mejia, Carter and Ike. He wants to win now to save his job. The best way to do that is sell out long term interests for short term. Carter (and is seems Ike) are defensible short term moves that don't jeopardize long term success. Mejia....well that's been discussed enough.

[Ramon Suarez]

SOF, mostly, if we are to believe the puppet master thing.

I just hope he hasn’t meddled on the draft, because if they waste their high draft pick for another Humber, then the rebuilding will be that much harder.

If you believe SOF is the source, as I also do, then you have also believe the people he hired and the players they in turn acquired for the job share in that responsibility....ie... Omar's incompetant, Jerry sucks, Castillo bites, etc....

[Ramon Suarez]

Getting rid of Jerry and finding a better replacement makes a difference and could already be the difference between our losing record and a .500 one. We have lost alot of 1-2 run games and that is an indicator of poor managing.

[SoCal Metfan]

Wait a minute. Omar didn't just pull that 36 million dollar figure from thin air. That was a price which was LOWER than the 4 year asking price Perez and his slimeball agent, Scott Boras, told Omar he was worth. So yeah, blame Oliver. If his peice of shit ass asked for 4 million dollars Omar would have gladly paid it. Sadly though, he still would have been overpaid.

No way. I don't blame any player (or his agent) asking for big $$$. It's the *GM*s responsibility to laugh at that request. You can blame Olie for sucking (and he does). But that contract, and his delusions of grandeur are on Omar/management's head.

[Ramon Suarez]

No way. I don't blame any player (or his agent) asking for big $$$. It's the *GM*s responsibility to laugh at that request. You can blame Olie for sucking (and he does). But that contract, and his delusions of grandeur are on Omar/management's head.

That's not what you insinuated. You insinuated Omar gave Oliver the impression he was worth alot more than he is.


If you tell a guy he's worth $36M, it's no surprise that he has delusions about his own talent level

Sorry, but Oliver already had that idea planted firmly in his pea-sized brain before he was made a contract offer. His selfishness is on him, nobody delluded him into it.

[sweetlew]

Let's be realistic, he wasn't getting another big contract ever, regardless of whether he accepts a demotion or not.

If he comes back next year in his walk year and pitches 200 IP with an ERA of 4.00, some GM like Omar will pay him very well

[Ramon Suarez]

If he comes back next year in his walk year and pitches 200 IP with an ERA of 4.00, some GM like Omar will pay him very well

Yup. He will magically find his fastball again....::coughs:: ::steroids:: ::coughs::

[Ramon Suarez]

And these lineups that Jerry constructs are whack as hell....Cora batting 2nd? Carter batting 4th and then being pinch hit for? What? Pagan hitting at the bottom of the order?

My lineup:
1-Reyes
2-Pagan
3-Wright
4-Davis
5-Bay
6-Carter
7-Barajas
8-Castillo

[SoCal Metfan]

That's not what you insinuated. You insinuated Omar gave Oliver the impression he was worth alot more than he is.

Sorry, but Oliver already had that idea planted firmly in his pea-sized brain before he was made a contract offer. His selfishness is on him, nobody delluded him into it.

If you stop trying to look for semantics to try and pick apart, you'd see that my central point wasn't the *origin* of Ollie's distorted self-interest. He was, at age 24 (iirc), a dominant pitcher in the Major leagues. Of course he's gonna have a huge opinion of his own talents. He's always, even during his struggles and descent into crappiness, been good at striking guys out. So there *is* a basis for him to believe he still has in himself ability to pitch. He wouldn't be a professional athlete if he didn't. He's *supposed* to thing he's good (even when he's not). It's Omars (and Jer's) job to not be sold that bill of goods.

So again, I say, curse Ollie for sucking. His misplaced confidence is what not unusual for a pro athlete. When the GM agrees with you that you are worth $36M, instead of laughing, that's on the GM, not the player.

[SoCal Metfan]

If he comes back next year in his walk year and pitches 200 IP with an ERA of 4.00, some GM like Omar will pay him very well

Oh, I thought we were talking about relistic scenarios. Sure, he might come back and win a Cy Young, and he'll get a big contract.

[Ramon Suarez]

HA!

[SoCal Metfan]

And these lineups that Jerry constructs are whack as hell....Cora batting 2nd? Carter batting 4th and then being pinch hit for? What? Pagan hitting at the bottom of the order?

My lineup:
1-Reyes
2-Pagan
3-Wright
4-Davis
5-Bay
6-Carter
7-Barajas
8-Castillo

The Pagan thing is so infuriating. One day after batting Pagan in the third spot, with Pagan doing well there, he drops him to 7th. At this point, Jer is just throwing sh** on the wall, and itsn't even waiting to see if it sticks. He waits to long on abject failures like the Jose in the 3 spot, but gives Pagan a total of one day in the role.

Meanwhile, the team's best hitter is still in the 5th spot. ugh.

[sweetlew]

Oh, I thought we were talking about relistic scenarios. Sure, he might come back and win a Cy Young, and he'll get a big contract.

Believe it our not, in 2008, Ollile logged over 200 IP with an ERA just north of 4 --- while those numbers aren't worthy of $12m, they would land him $7-8 per

[Ramon Suarez]

If you stop trying to look for semantics to try and pick apart, you'd see that my central point wasn't the *origin* of Ollie's distorted self-interest. He was, at age 24 (iirc), a dominant pitcher in the Major leagues. Of course he's gonna have a huge opinion of his own talents. He's always, even during his struggles and descent into crappiness, been good at striking guys out. So there *is* a basis for him to believe he still has in himself ability to pitch. He wouldn't be a professional athlete if he didn't. He's *supposed* to thing he's good (even when he's not). It's Omars (and Jer's) job to not be sold that bill of goods.

So again, I say, curse Ollie for sucking. His misplaced confidence is what not unusual for a pro athlete. When the GM agrees with you that you are worth $36M, instead of laughing, that's on the GM, not the player.

I am sorry I will not make the mistake of carefully reading your posts anymore...But you seem to conflate self-confidence with selfishness. There is a fine line separating the two and in Oliver's case the former has turned into the latter. He was confident to believe he was worth 4 years 50 million dollars. He is selfish for refusing to put his own pride over the team's immediate interests until he could figure things out. Nobody is to blame for that decision but Oliver because he can't help it if he sucks, but he can at least try to explore every possible recourse for improvement.

[Ramon Suarez]

The Pagan thing is so infuriating. One day after batting Pagan in the third spot, with Pagan doing well there, he drops him to 7th. At this point, Jer is just throwing sh** on the wall, and itsn't even waiting to see if it sticks. He waits to long on abject failures like the Jose in the 3 spot, but gives Pagan a total of one day in the role.

Meanwhile, the team's best hitter is still in the 5th spot. ugh.

Totally agree. Jerry has no plan. His lineups wreak of desperation only to be made worse by overmanaging them in crucial late inning situations.

[SoCal Metfan]

Believe it our not, in 2008, Ollile logged over 200 IP with an ERA just north of 4 --- while those numbers aren't worthy of $12m, they would land him $7-8 per

Ollie will also be 3 years older, with 3 years of declining peripherals. His contract was laughable to just about everyone in baseball when it was signed, you think that one solid year next year would bring that back? The $36M pricetag sold by Boras was largely based on potential he had as being "only" 28, and his record of success in his youth.

Under just about any realistic scenario, Ollie isn't gonna get another big mulit-year contract. I'll allow that you're might, *maybe* he gets a decent 1 year deal, if he rebounds, but nobody is gonna give him another multi year contract. It isn't happening.

[Ramon Suarez]

LOL

[Ramon Suarez]

Ollie will also be 3 years older, with 3 years of declining peripherals. His contract was laughable to just about everyone in baseball when it was signed, you think that one solid year next year would bring that back? The $36M pricetag sold by Boras was largely based on potential he had as being "only" 28, and his record of success in his youth.

Under just about any realistic scenario, Ollie isn't gonna get another big mulit-year contract. I'll allow that you're might, *maybe* he gets a decent 1 year deal, if he rebounds, but nobody is gonna give him another multi year contract. It isn't happening.

He is one Dave Duncan stint away from Piniero like salvation...



HAHAHAHA. Sorry, couldn't finish that without laughing...

[SoCal Metfan]

I am sorry I will not make the mistake of carefully reading your posts anymore...But you seem to conflate self-confidence with selfishness. There is a fine line separating the two and in Oliver's case the former has turned into the latter. He was confident to believe he was worth 4 years 50 million dollars. He is selfish for refusing to put his own pride over the team's immediate interests until he could figure things out. Nobody is to blame for that decision but Oliver because he can't help it if he sucks, but he can at least try to explore every possible recourse for improvement.

Oh please, being obtuse and intentionlly ignoring my central point isn't reading carefully it's being pedantic.

Is Ollie selfish? Of course he is by not accepting the minor league deal. But is it his fault for the wasted roster spot? No. Again, it'd be great if he realized that he's not gonna help the team in his current condition. But the roster spot is the responsibility of the GM (well management in general, since we assume that Omar is a figurehead at this point).

[Tim]

He is one Dave Duncan stint away from Piniero like salvation...



HAHAHAHA. Sorry, couldn't finish that without laughing...

we got 99 problems, and Lollie ain't one.

[Future]

If we get Oliver Perez to the minors, he's never coming back. I think he knows that.

[four3two1]

Future

If we get Oliver Perez to the minors, he's never coming back. I think he knows that.



like Evans!

[Future]

But Oliver likes flying on planes, not riding around in buses, etc. He likes the lifestyle of a professional baseplayer even though he's not a professional baseplayer anymore.

[SoCal Metfan]

like Evans!

Who? :)

[SoCal Metfan]

But Oliver likes flying on planes, not riding around in buses, etc. He likes the lifestyle of a professional baseplayer even though he's not a professional baseplayer anymore.

You'd think with the ~$20M left on his contract, he can charter his own flights, or at least buy a few first class airline tickets. :)

[DL]

oliver is a professional player

i'm sure he'd do well in some euro baseball league

wtf cares, baseball season is over. nba draft/trade/fa rumor season is on for non-yankee new york fans

[SoCal Metfan]

oliver is a professional player

i'm sure he'd do well in some euro baseball league

wtf cares, baseball season is over. nba draft/trade/fa rumor season is on for non-yankee new york fans

I swear, if this place turns into Knicks/Nets/Giants/Jets talk before October, I"m gonna have to go Full Jerry and cut a b**ch. >:P

[Future]

Anyone else watch the Finale of The Pacific? :( So sad.

[DL]

I swear, if this place turns into Knicks/Nets/Giants/Jets talk before October, I"m gonna have to go Full Jerry and cut a b**ch. >:P

before october? try before june

[SoCal Metfan]

before october? try before june

*sharpens shiv*

[SoCal Metfan]

The boards are suspiciously quiet. First y'all chase off Lunk, and now Dep is MIA. Did he survive that bachelor's party?

[Future]

I hope he did!

I don't even know where Lunk is. Maybe he's taking a break from the board.

[DL]

maybe he's taking a break from the mets!

[Future]

I wish Oliver Perez would take a break from the Mets.

[Dogcatcher]

The Pagan thing is so infuriating. One day after batting Pagan in the third spot, with Pagan doing well there, he drops him to 7th. At this point, Jer is just throwing sh** on the wall, and itsn't even waiting to see if it sticks. He waits to long on abject failures like the Jose in the 3 spot, but gives Pagan a total of one day in the role.

Meanwhile, the team's best hitter is still in the 5th spot. ugh.

Saying Omar is to fault for Oliver's performance is ABSURD. Ike is hardly a 4, and no one would be suggesting him there after 75 ABs except we have two righties to split.

I wasnt a big supporter of signing Perez, but we didnt have great alternatives either, so I ont kill Omar for it. But he is responsible for not getting any SP help this offseason. Nothing

The lineup hasnt been great, but that's not a major issue. Pagan is HORRIBLE against LHers..look it up. The pen is spent because we get no innings out of 3 of our 5 starters.

If you have a cap on spending, you dont piss 80% of it away on 6 players bc you end up w zero depth, which is our exact problem.

As for carter, he's poor defensively..I dont like Cora, but hitting him 2 isnt why were losing. I mean cmon..whats our record when Santana and Pelf start? How bout the others?

[Future]

I have an idea, throw Ollie into games where we're down big, and throw him into as many games as possible. When he refuses to do so, suspend him for insubordination.

[MyFavBaseballSquadron]

You can't suspend Ollie for something he doesn't comprehend the meaning of, at least that would be Jerry/Omar's rationale.

Airport service at the bar for FTL, but where else are ya gonna go?

[Dogcatcher]

For everyone who isnt aware, Angel Pagan OPS splits: .806 v Righties, .523 vs lefties.

The man CANNOT hit in the middle of the order against LH pitching...

[Future]

Saying Omar is to fault for Oliver's performance is ABSURD. Ike is hardly a 4, and no one would be suggesting him there after 75 ABs except we have two righties to split.

I wasnt a big supporter of signing Perez, but we didnt have great alternatives either, so I ont kill Omar for it. But he is responsible for not getting any SP help this offseason. Nothing

As for carter, he's poor defensively..I dont like Cora, but hitting him 2 isnt why were losing. I mean cmon..whats our record when Santana and Pelf start? How bout the others?

1. Yes we did have alternatives to Oliver Perez. Jon Garland and Randy Wolf were both willing to take one year deals. For less money. They also would put up the same level of performance as Oliver Perez and we knew that. Lets not pull up some fucking bullshit revisionist history to help Omar. He was hoping for Oliver Perez to make a huge recovery and that 2008 was an aberration. It turned out it was, he would never be that good again!

2. We saw Carter for one game. He made one mistake, he wasn't backing up Niese's terrible throw to first and that run scored because of the error.

3. How can you say Cora batting second isn't part of the reason we're losing when we don't have a large sample size to compare it to Jerry being intelligent and batting Cora 8th.

[CatchDog]

MFBS;

Have a safe trip over the pond.

When will you be back ?

[SoCal Metfan]

Saying Omar is to fault for Oliver's performance is ABSURD. Ike is hardly a 4, and no one would be suggesting him there after 75 ABs except we have two righties to split.

I wasnt a big supporter of signing Perez, but we didnt have great alternatives either, so I ont kill Omar for it. But he is responsible for not getting any SP help this offseason. Nothing

The lineup hasnt been great, but that's not a major issue. Pagan is HORRIBLE against LHers..look it up. The pen is spent because we get no innings out of 3 of our 5 starters.

If you have a cap on spending, you dont piss 80% of it away on 6 players bc you end up w zero depth, which is our exact problem.

As for carter, he's poor defensively..I dont like Cora, but hitting him 2 isnt why were losing. I mean cmon..whats our record when Santana and Pelf start? How bout the others?

I never said Omar was responsible for Ollie's performance, quite the contrary I said that Ollie is to blame. I said Omar's to blame for Ollie's contract, which, from day one looked ridiculous, and amazingly, in retrospect looks even worse.

Pagan isn't good against LHs, noone said he was. But regardless of his platoon issues, he's still one of the 3 or 4 best hitters on the team (how's that for sad).

The rotation sucks, so the pen is overtaxed, so why don't we have more reinforcements for the pen? Omar gambled on Escobar and Calero (good gambles, but gambles nonetheless), and let fodder like Figgy walk a way. Jer does have to go to the pen cause the starters haven't pulle dtheir weight, but then he does things like PH for Taka after 1 inning, despite being the long man. Short starts make efficient bullpen usage even more important. So you can't give Jer a break just cause he's got a bad situation. Either he's helping the team or he's not. I think all evidence points to the "not".

Cora hitting 2 is not *the* reason the Mets are losing. But it's just one of dozens of small moves that eventually pile up and make a $130M payroll team staring up from last place.

[Dogcatcher]

1. Yes we did have alternatives to Oliver Perez. Jon Garland and Randy Wolf were both willing to take one year deals. For less money. They also would put up the same level of performance as Oliver Perez and we knew that. Lets not pull up some fucking bullshit revisionist history to help Omar. He was hoping for Oliver Perez to make a huge recovery and that 2008 was an aberration. It turned out it was, he would never be that good again!

2. We saw Carter for one game. He made one mistake, he wasn't backing up Niese's terrible throw to first and that run scored because of the error.

3. How can you say Cora batting second isn't part of the reason we're losing when we don't have a large sample size to compare it to Jerry being intelligent and batting Cora 8th.


Actually, at this point, I think Omar has failed to respond properly. he's had a while to acquire some decent pitching depth. Our SP pitched good for a wekk and a half and we we went 10-1.

games started by Santana (5-3) and Pelfrey (6-2) we're 11-5. 7 and 15 otherwise. Niese Maine and Ollie have combined for 113 innings in 23
starts, that's less than 5 innings per start!!!

The starting pitching SUCKS, so we lose.

I dont like Cora hitting second btw.

I dont think jer a master, or our lineup brilliant, weve played decent D and not making fund mistakes we made last year...but you just simply cant get .300 ball and 4+ innings per start out of 60% of your rotation and then kill the mgr bc the bullpen is burnt and your prize FA has one HR and your RF hits .105 since the first 10 games

[SoCal Metfan]

For everyone who isnt aware, Angel Pagan OPS splits: .806 v Righties, .523 vs lefties.

The man CANNOT hit in the middle of the order against LH pitching...

Yet, Alex Cora, who has .639 OPS against *all pitchers* is hitting 2 hole? And a .586 OPS vs lefties. So how do you resolve the arguement that you think it's fine for Cora to hit #2, yet Pagan who is unquestionably a better hitter from either side, gets dropped down to 7th? Where's the logical consistancy? Jer has deemed that the #2 htiter has to the be the 2nd baseman, come hell or high water and it makes no sense.

[SoCal Metfan]

Actually, at this point, I think Omar has failed to respond properly. he's had a while to acquire some decent pitching depth. Our SP pitched good for a wekk and a half and we we went 10-1.

games started by Santana (5-3) and Pelfrey (6-2) we're 11-5. 7 and 15 otherwise. Niese Maine and Ollie have combined for 113 innings in 23
starts, that's less than 5 innings per start!!!

The starting pitching SUCKS, so we lose.

I dont like Cora hitting second btw.

I dont think jer a master, or our lineup brilliant, weve played decent D and not making fund mistakes we made last year...but you just simply cant get .300 ball and 4+ innings per start out of 60% of your rotation and then kill the mgr bc the bullpen is burnt and your prize FA has one HR and your RF hits .105 since the first 10 games

You're not paying attention. Most people are *not* ssaying Jer is to fault for the 'pen being burnt. What most people *are* sayign is that when the rotation has forced Jer to go the pen, he has done it inefficently, and made lots of mistakes. There is lots of blame to go around, and Jer gets to partake in it.

He's over-ridden two guys in the pen, while underusing some, and made headscratching decisions *consistantly*. This has been his M.O. for 1+ years now.

[four3two1]

Saying Omar is to fault for Oliver's performance is ABSURD. Ike is hardly a 4, and no one would be suggesting him there after 75 ABs except we have two righties to split.

I wasnt a big supporter of signing Perez, but we didnt have great alternatives either, so I ont kill Omar for it. But he is responsible for not getting any SP help this offseason. Nothing

The lineup hasnt been great, but that's not a major issue. Pagan is HORRIBLE against LHers..look it up. The pen is spent because we get no innings out of 3 of our 5 starters.

If you have a cap on spending, you dont piss 80% of it away on 6 players bc you end up w zero depth, which is our exact problem.

As for carter, he's poor defensively..I dont like Cora, but hitting him 2 isnt why were losing. I mean cmon..whats our record when Santana and Pelf start? How bout the others?

I don't buy Carter being THAT poor defensively in the OF. But even if he is, he's still a damn good hitter so why would you ever have Frenchy PH for him? I understand maybe switching him out late in the game for defense AFTER he hits, but not before.

Also shitty bullpen management leads to unfavorable match ups later in the game and over use of certain players, who then give up 3 run homers to completely kill any chance of a rally from your team.


Stupid moves are stupid moves, and so unless SOF is on the phone telling Jerry what to do, its his fault.

[Bob A. Booey]

"He's over-ridden two guys in the pen, while underusing some, and made headscratching decisions *consistantly*. This has been his M.O. for 1+ years now. " WATCH THE TYPOS SO CAL OK ???

[Bob A. Booey]

i am kidding of course

[SoCal Metfan]

"He's over-ridden two guys in the pen, while underusing some, and made headscratching decisions *consistantly*. This has been his M.O. for 1+ years now. " WATCH THE TYPOS SO CAL OK ???

WHY ARE YOU YELLING?!?!








(I knew you were kidding)

[Bob A. Booey]

jerry is a fool but omar hasnt helped him with this lousy team,,,

[Bob A. Booey]

and if( when?) they make a change i want the anti jerry whatver that is ????

[Future]

And saying Omar isn't responsible for Ollie: of course he is. In that offseason he took his sweet ass time signing K-Rod, ignoring all the rest of the team's needs. He could only do one thing at once.

He should have signed Garland and Wolf (btw, both signed to one year deals they probably could have been signed for one year of Ollie) before moving to Ollie and then bent over Ollie because we didn't need him anymore.

[four3two1]

and if( when?) they make a change i want the anti jerry whatver that is ????

smart.

[DL]

we could have had both wolf and garland in 09 for the price of ollie

and at least one of them for cheaper now

it didn't just have to be lowe vs ollie

[Bob A. Booey]

smart. good point mastering the double switch is a tricky thing ,,,,:)

[Future]

we could have had both wolf and garland in 09 for the price of ollie

and at least one of them for cheaper now

it didn't just have to be lowe vs ollie

Don't use facts. Not just that but I bet we could have also gotten both of them to give us team options for the second year. Sigh!

[DL]

can't wait for lowe to somehow not suck vs us tonight

[Bob A. Booey]

DL who do you hate more the phillies of duke hoops ??? be honest !!!!

[DL]

phillies

i can concede that md won't and can't be what duke is

there's no reason we can't have philly's success

[Future]

I hate the Phillies the most. But my least favorite team ever is probably Argentina football.

LOL.

[sweetlew]

Well, at least Jerry has figured out the Frenchy needs a long sit --- sitting him in Atlanta sends message too, today's line-up:

Reyes-SS, Castillo-2B, Bay-LF, Carter-RF, Wright-3B, Davis-1B, Barajas-C, Matthews, Jr.-CF, Pelfrey-RHP

[Future]

He'll just pinch hit for him again with the game on the line.

[Athena]

Well, at least Jerry has figured out the Frenchy needs a long sit --- sitting him in Atlanta sends message too, today's line-up:

Reyes-SS, Castillo-2B, Bay-LF, Carter-RF, Wright-3B, Davis-1B, Barajas-C, Matthews, Jr.-CF, Pelfrey-RHP

Why is Pagan out of the line-up?

[Bob A. Booey]

hmmmm why no pagan ??????

[Future]

GMJr has to be rewarded for those two hits.

[Bob A. Booey]

GMJr has to be rewarded for those two hits.oh yes he is now hitting a STRONG 156 ????

[DL]

philly's success isn't even this huge thing. it's a 3+ year run that won't last longer than 6 yrs. what hurts is that it's philly and they shouldn't be this good ever and it's come at our expense for the most part

their team is full of sore winner douchedicks and their fans are even worse. and while they've done some good scouting and good teams make their own breaks, they're the luckiest fucking sons of bitches ever. fuck them

i think duke bball's status as this sainted program is complete garbage, but on the other hand, i have a begrudging respect for their program. maybe they get breaks from the refs and they fluked their way to a title this year, but whatever, 25 yrs of being at the top is what it is

[Future]

oh yes he is now hitting a STRONG 156 ????

RIDE THE HOT HAND BOOEY.

[DL]

frenchy out but sarge in? lmao

[SoCal Metfan]

Wow, those last three spots in the lineup look like an OBP nightmare.

And seriously, Wright is *still* 5th? WTF Jer.

[Bob A. Booey]

RIDE THE HOT HAND BOOEY. its JERRY BALL !!!!!!

[DL]

cause davey strikes out too much

[Bob A. Booey]

Wow, those last three spots in the lineup look like an OBP nightmare.

And seriously, Wright is *still* 5th? WTF Jer. am i the only one ,, or does it seem like with some of these moves he wants to get fired ???????

[SoCal Metfan]

oh yes he is now hitting a STRONG 156 ????

.184

that's strong.

[SoCal Metfan]

Why is Pagan out of the line-up?

Pagan doesn't have the endurance the Nieve does.

/sarcasm

[DL]

sarge is about to go on a tear

screw the doubters

[Future]

IIRC Sheffield started last year poorly, and in 2006 Jose Valentin started poorly as well.

Maybe GMJr is about to go ridiculous!

[Bob A. Booey]

sarge is about to go on a tear

screw the doubters tear what ??? a phone book in a roid rage ?? a hamstring ????

[SoCal Metfan]

IIRC Sheffield started last year poorly, and in 2006 Jose Valentin started poorly as well.

Maybe GMJr is about to go ridiculous!

Hopefully someone filled his BALCO prescritption.

[Bob A. Booey]

paging victor conte ,,,,,

[sweetlew]

Since Jerry was smart enough to sit Frenchy vs the righty, I guess he used up all of his spare smarts and started GMJ.

I guess when he hear Pagan can hit lefties, he thought he her that Pagan can't hit lefty

[Bob A. Booey]

Since Jerry was smart enough to sit Frenchy vs the righty, I guess he used up all of his spare smarts and started GMJ.

I guess when he hear Pagan can hit lefties, he thought he her that Pagan can't hit lefty the best was sitting him for sarge vs moyer " well you see moyer is the type of guy who could mess pagans swing up for a few games ?" jerry WTF ?????

[Athena]

sarge is about to go on a tear

screw the doubters

:) !

[sweetlew]

:) !

Sarge already went on and finished his tear --- he had two hits yesterday!

[Athena]

Sarge already went on and finished his tear --- he had two hits yesterday!

I didn't even know that! I usually study the box score and gameday when I miss a game, but I couldn't bring myself to spend much time on the mlb site after this past weekend.

Maybe Matthews has one more game in him before he turns back into . . . well. . . himself.

[SoCal Metfan]

So...somebody entertain me or something, or I'm gonna have to....work. *shudder*

[Future]

Hah. That's going to motivate me...wait, no its not.

[SoCal Metfan]

Hah. That's going to motivate me...wait, no its not.

You bastard. I was actually productive for the past half hour. That's unacceptable during baseball season. :)

[Future]

Your employer thanks me.

[lucienlc]

Per Adam Rubin, it sounds like Dickey may get a call up. Unsure if that's to start or to relieve (personally, I think it makes no sense to call him up to relieve, but most of what the Mets do makes no sense).

That meeting down in Atlanta sounds crazy - and desperate. Started as Omar, SoF, Ricci and Manuel. Then, Manuel left and came back with Warthen and the bullpen coach. Then Warthen and the bullpen coach were evicted, and the meeting continued.

[Future]

Well the Mets are nothing but cretins driven by desperation. I wonder if it was one big long blame game.

The funny thing is, ownership never holds anyone accountable for their mistakes. Except people who shouldn't be: see Jacket.

[Joe A.]

Per Adam Rubin, it sounds like Dickey may get a call up. Unsure if that's to start or to relieve (personally, I think it makes no sense to call him up to relieve, but most of what the Mets do makes no sense).

That meeting down in Atlanta sounds crazy - and desperate. Started as Omar, SoF, Ricci and Manuel. Then, Manuel left and came back with Warthen and the bullpen coach. Then Warthen and the bullpen coach were evicted, and the meeting continued.

The trainer was reportedly in there somewhere too.

[lucienlc]

Steve Phillips on Mike F today was amazingly interesting. Mike asked him what you do in this situation, and Philips basically said there are no good choices. The ticket sales are "catastrophically low" -- to a point where they will impact next season as well as this one. He said there's no quick fix -- the team isn't good enough. Bringing in one player isn't going to fix things -- in his view, even if you got Cliff Lee by some miracle, you still have a bullpen that can't close out enough games because the rest of your staff still sucks, and your team doesn't generate enough offense to compensate for lousy pitching. Conversely, bringing in a bat like Prince Fielder won't help, because your pitching woes continue. And it's unrealistic to imagine that you could bring in a Lee AND a Fielder. Hence, your best bet is to "blow it up" so to speak, and cut payroll (and expenses) as much as possible. Bring up kids, to try to generate some excitement, and sharply cut ticket prices so some fans will show up because it's more affordable and to watch the future of the Mets.

As far as changing the manager goes, he doesn't think it'll accomplish much because the team simply isn't that good. He doesn't think they can get Valentine, because they would be required to go through the entire ML-mandated hiring process, which takes too much time, so the choice will come from within. Since Melvin is "beige" and won't excite the fans, the best bet might be to bring in Backman, who would at least excite the 86 fans and might light a fire under the players.

He said that with Peres, the only way you get him to go down is by /a/ setting it for a limited time frame, so he knows he's coming back soon; and /b/ making it clear that if he doesn't go down, his role with the team is going to be very unappealing, and do your best to make sure he's going to be uncomfortable if he stays up.

He said he still thinks Wright and Reyes are part of the solution, not part of the problem. But that Wright does not appear to be a player who can carry a team -- he needs to be surrounded by good players. He once thought he'd be that kind of player, but he isn't, at least not yet. He also said he thought that Citifield was still clearly messing with David's head and his swing. He said that he doesn't think Reyes has recovered from missing so much time, esp spring training this year.

Finally, Ricci is almost certainly going to be the next GM, because you can keep everyone else in the organization if you do that, so your only loss is Omar's money. Whereas, if you bring in an entire new regime, then your scouting system, all the coaches, managers, office people, etc. get changed, and it costs you more.

[lucienlc]

Well the Mets are nothing but cretins driven by desperation. I wonder if it was one big long blame game.

The funny thing is, ownership never holds anyone accountable for their mistakes. Except people who shouldn't be: see Jacket.

That's why cutting Ollie would be the best thing they could do. If you show the team that you won't hesitate to punish lack of performance, even if it costs you a bundle, it might get other peoples' attention.

But of course, these are the Wilpons, and it'll never happen.

[lucienlc]

The trainer was reportedly in there somewhere too.

Probably trying to decide whether or not to DL Niese. Supposedly, he has a "mild" hamstring strain. To me, that means DL. To the Mets, it probably means keep him hanging around for ten days, let him throw and tweak it again, and then miss two months.

[lucienlc]

It's Dickey on Wednesday. Manuel ruled out Valdes and Dickey's name plate is up already. Per Adam Rubin (who else)

[lucienlc]

Hisanori Takahashi will start in place of Jon Niese on Friday against the Yankees. Niese has been diagnosed with a "mild" hamstring strain, the Mets announced.

The Mets did not announce a starter for Wednesday's game, but a source told ESPNNewYork.com that R.A. Dickey is en route from Triple-A Buffalo. Manager Jerry Manuel has ruled out Raul Valdes, signaling Dickey should be the starter against the Nationals.

Rubin, from his blog (earlier reports were from his Twitter)

[lucienlc]

Does anyone else see it as a bad sign that Niese is having a problem with the same hamstring that caused his terrible injury last year?

Btw, it appears that they won't DL him (as I predicted). "He'll be re-evaluated in a few days." (snort)

[Future]

What idiots. He's going to miss 1 start no matter what. Just have him miss 2.

[CatchDog]

Apparently Dickey already has a locker set up in Atlanta. He'll be "the guy" on Wednesday against the gNats.

[Future]

You ever go to Turner Field, CatchDog?

[CatchDog]

Yes. Beats the hell out of Fulton County Stadium.

[Future]

What's it like compared to Citi? You've been to Citi, right?

[SoCal Metfan]

Steve Phillips on Mike F today was amazingly interesting. Mike asked him what you do in this situation, and Philips basically said there are no good choices. The ticket sales are "catastrophically low" -- to a point where they will impact next season as well as this one. He said there's no quick fix -- the team isn't good enough. Bringing in one player isn't going to fix things -- in his view, even if you got Cliff Lee by some miracle, you still have a bullpen that can't close out enough games because the rest of your staff still sucks, and your team doesn't generate enough offense to compensate for lousy pitching. Conversely, bringing in a bat like Prince Fielder won't help, because your pitching woes continue. And it's unrealistic to imagine that you could bring in a Lee AND a Fielder. Hence, your best bet is to "blow it up" so to speak, and cut payroll (and expenses) as much as possible. Bring up kids, to try to generate some excitement, and sharply cut ticket prices so some fans will show up because it's more affordable and to watch the future of the Mets.

As far as changing the manager goes, he doesn't think it'll accomplish much because the team simply isn't that good. He doesn't think they can get Valentine, because they would be required to go through the entire ML-mandated hiring process, which takes too much time, so the choice will come from within. Since Melvin is "beige" and won't excite the fans, the best bet might be to bring in Backman, who would at least excite the 86 fans and might light a fire under the players.

He said that with Peres, the only way you get him to go down is by /a/ setting it for a limited time frame, so he knows he's coming back soon; and /b/ making it clear that if he doesn't go down, his role with the team is going to be very unappealing, and do your best to make sure he's going to be uncomfortable if he stays up.

He said he still thinks Wright and Reyes are part of the solution, not part of the problem. But that Wright does not appear to be a player who can carry a team -- he needs to be surrounded by good players. He once thought he'd be that kind of player, but he isn't, at least not yet. He also said he thought that Citifield was still clearly messing with David's head and his swing. He said that he doesn't think Reyes has recovered from missing so much time, esp spring training this year.

Finally, Ricci is almost certainly going to be the next GM, because you can keep everyone else in the organization if you do that, so your only loss is Omar's money. Whereas, if you bring in an entire new regime, then your scouting system, all the coaches, managers, office people, etc. get changed, and it costs you more.

That's surprisingly lucid and rational. Are you *sure* that's from Phillips?

[four3two1]

if Manuel gets fired...i'd rather have chip hale over backman or melvin

[Future]

Its always easier to be able to say those things when you'll never get a job in baseball again.

[lucienlc]

That's surprisingly lucid and rational. Are you *sure* that's from Phillips?

Shocked the hell out of me. ;-)

[CatchDog]

What's it like compared to Citi? You've been to Citi, right?

Been to Citi just once. Sat behind home plate back and a bit towards the Met's dugout, then went to a suite 1/2 way thru the game. It was OK. Didn't stay for the entire game and didn't even get a chance to walk around and give Shake Shack a try.

The TED is nice. No bad seats and kickin BBQ out in the Beer stands in the outfield. Everything was sponsored by Coke.

[CatchDog]

Luci;

How's your eyes doing?

[Future]

The entire state of Georgia is sponsored by Coke.

[Dave Magadan]

Hey all! I like Citi its the team that plays there that is terrible to watch.lol Personally, the shrimp po boy at catch of the day w/ sea salt fries and cheese it the teets for me. Chugged down w/ a Leffe blonde.

[Future]

I find Citi to be serviceable. I'm confused why it was made too small and with obstructed seats. PNC Park was nicer and cheaper and with no obstructed seats.

[Dave Magadan]

I rarely sit in my own seats I usually just walk around and catch the game wherever I am usually if no ones paying attention I can get to field level by the 4th...and lets face it there are plenty of empty seats down below. :(

[Tim]

moving to better seats used to be easy, they have Gestapo type thugs at Busch that ask to see your "papers" if you try to move.

[Dogcatcher]

And saying Omar isn't responsible for Ollie: of course he is. In that offseason he took his sweet ass time signing K-Rod, ignoring all the rest of the team's needs. He could only do one thing at once.

He should have signed Garland and Wolf (btw, both signed to one year deals they probably could have been signed for one year of Ollie) before moving to Ollie and then bent over Ollie because we didn't need him anymore.

My comment was in response to blaming Omar for Ollie's performance, which Is absurd. All I said is I wouldnt "kill him" for signing the guy, who was coming off a good year and potentially maturing. Emphasis on potentially. I didnt say I like the signing, and I certainly dont think hes not accountable - he is. But I dont think anyone really anticipated it would get this bad - the guy beat the Yanks Braves and Phils every game he pitched that year.

I agree with your "one thing at a time" point. It worked year 1, when we outspent everyone and no one else had $$. It doesn not work now, and wont anytime soon.



As for Cora hitting second and Pagan 7, I imagine its bc Pagan has more pop. In any event, I dont support Cora even being on the team, and agree Pags ought to hit 2 - over Cora.

But hitting Pagan 3rd, or getting all fired up bc he got bumped down against a lefty - it isnt a big deal. I like Angel, but he sucks against lefties. I figured he'd platoon with Frenchy this year (b4 Tron got hurt). Hes just not an everyday CF

As for the bullpen management, you can nit pick all you want -youve got 3 goddamn pitchers of 5 who dont even get out of the 5th inning. Its absolutely friggin pathetic, and Jerry has Zero blame for that. cant remember one game he pulled a pitcher and I said "its too early". They have buried us over and over again.

[Dogcatcher]

Re Citi - I thnk its a very nice ballpark, but not awesome. Not even sure why, just doesnt reach "greatness" to me...

Of course, then theres the shake shack

[Dogcatcher]

As for Steve Phillips, while I agree with most of the comments, his body of work sucked as mets GM. Sucked.

As for D Wright, his K's drive me nuts too, but Mike Schmidt struck out a lot too

[Dogcatcher]

I also think Phillips is exaggerating how bad it is...we are solid in LF CF (if Tron ok), 3B SS and have found our 1B. We can upgrade seriously in RF and 2B.

Our 1 and 2 SP are fine...the rest is a mess. BP is above average.

I just checked CBS rankings: Mets are 14th IF, 12th OF, 13th BP (all of which arent great but respectable), and 26th in SP. Pitt KC Balt and Det are worse, and that's with Santana and Pelf pitching well.

PATHETIC